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05-26-2014, 11:51 AM
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#1961
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Rivet Master
2002 19' Bambi
Lafayette
, California
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,554
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Howard L.
I've been wondering also Landrum. Will some of you early posters with early 2000s trailers let us know how the Baked-on Alcoa clear coat on the skin is holding up itself. Is it still clear, turning hazy or yellow. Has it peeled anywhere, like the older plastic coats? Also if you will, post your thoughts on the later progression of skin Filiform once you started a maintenance program with corrosion X or Corrosion Block. Are new areas popping up like in the beginning or did the Filiform attacks slow to almost a stop. Also, as time has gone by, have you noticed more spots of Filiform on the skin of the molded/formed end caps?
Thanks
Howard
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Our 2002 has some of spots of filiform here and there. When I find one, I carefully scrape it to the aluminum and apply a clear finish (have used several types). Otherwise, the finish has held up perfectly without haze or yellowing. I wax the trailer (originally with Walbernize and now with Turtle Wax Ice) a couple of times a year and wash it when it is dirty. It is stored outside with lots of sun.
Tim
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06-02-2014, 09:03 AM
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#1962
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Aluminut
2004 25' Safari
.
, Illinois
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,477
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Howard L.
I've been wondering also Landrum. Will some of you early posters with early 2000s trailers let us know how the Baked-on Alcoa clear coat on the skin is holding up itself. Is it still clear, turning hazy or yellow. Has it peeled anywhere, like the older plastic coats? Also if you will, post your thoughts on the later progression of skin Filiform once you started a maintenance program with corrosion X or Corrosion Block. Are new areas popping up like in the beginning or did the Filiform attacks slow to almost a stop. Also, as time has gone by, have you noticed more spots of Filiform on the skin of the molded/formed end caps?
Thanks
Howard
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My 2004 is stored inside where temp and humidity are somewhat regulated and consistent and I wax it several times a season and get all the dead bugs off, so I may not be a good gauge, that said:
I have a few of the white squiggly lines around a rivet or two and of course my cast tail lights and entry handle have it a bit more. I have no peeling (yet), and no discoloration (yet), however, I haven't seen the trailer in about a year as I've been busy, but am picking up the trailer Sat and can reinspect it and report back any changes in the year it's been in hibernation.
From my estimates, my trailer is about year 5 of the pre-coated alum from Alcoa. Sometime mid-1999 model year they switched from the EPA approved spray on coating that would peel off after 4-5 years to these pretreated panels that the factory punches holes into, cuts, etc to add windows, rivets, etc and it's those areas that typically show the issue on pre-coated panels such as mine.
I never imagined this thread would live as long as it has, but apparently, there are a lot of us out there that have varying degrees of this issue still to the current model year.
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06-02-2014, 09:39 PM
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#1963
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Rivet Master
2012 30' Flying Cloud
San Antonio
, Texas
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 681
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Thanks Tim and Silverwinkle. You especially Silver, who first brought the Filiform issue to the forum back in 2007. Hopefully we'll get some more replies going back to 99 or 2000. But it appears that as far as we know the Alcoa baked on finish itself is holding up real well--it's been 15 years from the first use. What's a shame here, is that the major issue of the Filiform has, from the beginning been a problem from the uncoated areas caused by the cutting and drilling done by AS at the factory during construction. The rivet holes are probably something that is what it is--unless a corrosion X coated rivet could be used (I wonder if there is some coated rivet that exists and could be used in construction). But, the exposed overlapping edges of the skin panels being left as bare cut edges is bull crap. To re coat those panel edges after forming and cutting to size with a small roller using clear-coat of any kind would put a stop to most all early skin corrosion problems (that's where 75% starts) . It's beyond understanding, with all the issues the company and owners have had, that THOR doesn't just bite the bullet, treat machined edges and then rivet the unit together. The answer I got when I recently called and asked why the edges weren't treated before construction was "all edges don't get corrosion". So if the problem isn't there for all owners then we don't deal with it? That is an awful attitude from a company that produces such a quality and expensive trailer. The fix here (at least for the edges) would be so simple.
Most other corrosion problems have been dealt with now: placards and hard wear attachments now mounted with gaskets protecting the clear coated skin. Concave clearance lights mounted to a flat skin surface now completely cushioned from the skin with larger gaskets. Why not finish the job and sell us a completely protected trailer surface? Also, Insist that the suppliers of the cast parts (entry handle, door hinges, tail lights, etc) use a quality clear coat, and everybody wins.
Once again, here a 2012 Flying Cloud that was 8 months old at the time:
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06-02-2014, 11:39 PM
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#1964
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Rivet Master
1972 31' Sovereign
1975 31' Excella 500
Currently Looking...
Benton
, Arkansas
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,868
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Corrosion problems with new Airstreams
Upon study of clear over Aluminum, current technology has not reached the point where aluminum can be affordably and practically coated to prevent corrosion over a period of years or even months.
Clearing over bare metal is very challenging. If a certain Airstream makes it a few years or even several months without experiencing blemishes, luck has a lot to do with it.
__________________
The fact that I am opinionated does not presuppose that I am wrong......
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06-03-2014, 05:29 PM
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#1965
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1 Rivet Member
Chesapeake
, Virginia
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 8
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I have lurked here on this thread for along time and like a few others have been looking very closely at Livin Lite. Now that Thor has acquired them, I wonder if there will be any lessons learned or knowledge transfer to AS. I have been active in the LL forums and have yet to see any post on filiform. Certainly there are other issues, but that and rot are not on the list. As for me, I am saddened to see such an iconic brand collapse in this quality area when others do not have the same issues. I use to think it was EPA or other government regs that hurt them, but that looks less like the case now.
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06-03-2014, 07:16 PM
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#1966
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Rivet Master
1972 31' Sovereign
1975 31' Excella 500
Currently Looking...
Benton
, Arkansas
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,868
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Does Thor make another brand where bare aluminum is cleared over?
__________________
The fact that I am opinionated does not presuppose that I am wrong......
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06-10-2014, 03:29 PM
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#1967
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Aluminut
2004 25' Safari
.
, Illinois
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,477
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OK, FWIW, I just picked my '04 up having not seen it in about year. It was indoor and I am happy to report I've not seen any new noticeable corrosion than it had when it went into hibernation.
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06-10-2014, 10:16 PM
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#1968
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Rivet Master
2012 30' Flying Cloud
San Antonio
, Texas
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 681
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie
OK, FWIW, I just picked my '04 up having not seen it in about year. It was indoor and I am happy to report I've not seen any new noticeable corrosion than it had when it went into hibernation.
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Great!
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06-13-2014, 07:02 PM
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#1969
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1 Rivet Member
Chesapeake
, Virginia
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Morgan
Does Thor make another brand where bare aluminum is cleared over?
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Not sure that Livinlite would be described that way as the outside skin is painted over. I know the floor can be bare aluminum but have not read about any corrosion issues with it. As for me, I am about to write the check for this one: Camplite 28bhs Automotive Travel Trailer Overview | Livin' Lite RV
It is so new that there are no pics on the internet other than the few you can see in the Gallery, nor is there anything yet on youtube. This one has a bunk house where the bunks appear to be able to be flipped up. There is a back door to that area that lets you put bicycles in that space if you are not using the bunks. Dry weight for this 29 footer is 4250. I held out as long as I could for AS to solve their corrosion issues but at least I am staying in the corporate family!!
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06-16-2014, 08:38 AM
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#1970
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Rivet Master
2013 27' FB International
El Dorado Hills
, California
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,023
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Better get a good anti-sway hitch. The 275lb tongue weight seems pretty light for a 4750lb trailer.
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06-17-2014, 04:55 AM
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#1971
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4 Rivet Member
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Victoria
, BC
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funpilot
Not sure that Livinlite would be described that way as the outside skin is painted over. I know the floor can be bare aluminum but have not read about any corrosion issues with it. As for me, I am about to write the check for this one: Camplite 28bhs Automotive Travel Trailer Overview | Livin' Lite RV
It is so new that there are no pics on the internet other than the few you can see in the Gallery, nor is there anything yet on youtube. This one has a bunk house where the bunks appear to be able to be flipped up. There is a back door to that area that lets you put bicycles in that space if you are not using the bunks. Dry weight for this 29 footer is 4250. I held out as long as I could for AS to solve their corrosion issues but at least I am staying in the corporate family!!
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Well, good luck & happy trails to you.
Despite all my gripes about filiform, leaks etc., I don't think I would trade my 25FB for that setup.
Airstream could probably improve their product using some ideas from the LivinLite units but I see enough differences here that I don't like. This wouldn't tempt me to switch.
Different strokes for different folks I guess.
Enjoy!
- evan
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06-17-2014, 05:27 AM
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#1972
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Rivet Master
2014 25' Flying Cloud
Cuddebackville
, New York
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,333
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In the seven years we owned our 200 Safari the filliform never progressed beyond a few panel edges. Our 2014 FC has trim covering that area. Out of sight, out of mind.
__________________
2014 25' Flying Cloud Rear Twin
2019 Ford Expedition Platinum
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06-17-2014, 05:41 AM
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#1973
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Rivet Master
2013 30' Classic
Greenwood
, Mississippi
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 12,111
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I would never use that as a reason not to buy an Airstream trailer. I have never seen any on my trailer or anyone else's trailer.
I'm sure the Livin' Lite Camp Lite trailers are great trailers, though. There is no wood or steel, therefore there is no rot or rust. It is a good concept/idea.
__________________
2013 Classic 30 Limited
2007 Silver Toyota Tundra Crew Max Limited 5.7 iForce
2006 Vivid Black Harley-Davidson Road King Classic
1999 Black Nissan Pathfinder LE
TAC #MS-10
WBCCI #1811, Region 6, Unit 56
Airforums #70955
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06-17-2014, 05:52 AM
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#1974
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Rivet Master
2007 23' Safari SE
2016 23' International
Fernandina Beach
, Florida
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 586
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne&Sam
In the seven years we owned our 200 Safari the filliform never progressed beyond a few panel edges. Our 2014 FC has trim covering that area. Out of sight, out of mind.
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I have long wondered if the beltline trim strips might be available for Safari's, particularly the 8ft wide models ( I recently looked at an older International with such trim.) How is it attached? Rivets? I should think it would be a great retrofit solution for those really concerned about the appearance of their trailers.
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06-18-2014, 07:16 AM
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#1975
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Rivet Master
2007 Interstate
Normal
, Illinois
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 18,051
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I posted some years ago about corrosion around one of the ceiling lights of our 06 Interstate, which we have had 7 years.
We treated this area, but corrosion is coming back and, additionally, coming thru on an independent spot on the ceiling, in the vicinity of the affected light.
The spot was about the size of a dime when we noticed it a few months ago, is now about the size of a quarter. Just haven't been ready to think about dealing with it.
I am certain the original area, and the new one, are the result of the leaking vent fan from our first year or two with the Interstate. The factory install was very badly done, with the pre-drilled holes filled with caulk for some unknown reason, and new ones randomly drilled.
Needless to say, no amount of caulk stopped the leaking around the fan, and once Doug stripped everything down to the roof he could see why. Fantastic Fan sent a new install kit, for free, Doug put it in place properly, and there have been no more problems.
I shudder to think of what would be involved in repairing this.....at least some piece of the ceiling removed and replaced, hopefully not cabinets and everything internal, but I'm guessing they won't know til they get in there and look.
I have hoped maybe they can remove a midsection of the ceiling, and replace it, rather than the entire ceiling panel.
Would like some input from you, more savvy, folks out there, as to whether I must or should go to JC for this, what to ask for, are my thoughts reasonable, etc.
Whatever you can suggest would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Maggie
__________________
🏡 🚐 Cherish and appreciate those you love. This moment could be your last.🌹🐚
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06-18-2014, 07:49 AM
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#1976
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Rivet Master
2012 30' Flying Cloud
San Antonio
, Texas
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 681
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Maggie, can you post a photo of the affected area?
Howard
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06-18-2014, 09:17 AM
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#1977
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Rivet Master
2007 Interstate
Normal
, Illinois
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 18,051
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This is flipped around, off the IPad, but the little bubble by the light is the new spot.
The big bubble, of course, is what is occurring on the ceiling, and is actually toward the center of the ceiling.
Thanks,
Maggie
__________________
🏡 🚐 Cherish and appreciate those you love. This moment could be your last.🌹🐚
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06-18-2014, 11:07 AM
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#1978
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Rivet Master
2012 30' Flying Cloud
San Antonio
, Texas
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 681
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doug&maggie
This is flipped around, off the IPad, but the little bubble by the light is the new spot.
The big bubble, of course, is what is occurring on the ceiling, and is actually toward the center of the ceiling.
Thanks,
Maggie
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First Maggie, please accept my deepest sympathies about your loss of Doug. Thank the Lord you had a great 6 1/2 years of retirement together. We enjoy every day we travel in our Airstream, so understand why you two did also.
That new spot at the rivet, tells me you still have water up there--maybe still a leak in the roof. So you have to solve that problem first. You can pull the light down (get under the outer edge and pull down, the lights are held up there by two springs that kind of spread out and push down on the under side of the skin. Hard to explain, but you will see when you have the light down a little). Get your finger in there and feel for moisture. If you have one of those moisture meters, stick the prongs in there to check for moisture in the insulation. You can also pin prick the new bubble at the rivet to see if water is present.
Once you are sure all will stay dry there, you can either have the panel replaced (have no idea what that costs) or clean off the corrosion and reseal with clear coat. Those places are small and should not show too much. Look at my post, this thread, on 2/2/2014. Since the aluminum is a plain alloy and not the AlClad of old, the area you sand and re-polish will be a darker gray than the Alcoa coated skin look. If you want to finish the repaired area with a close color match to the Alcoa factory finish, look at post 4/10/2014: airstream restoration/repair/ext. restoration/clear-coat/ ext. paint and trim. Spray painting small areas like you have can be done OK and the fix will look better than just cleaning off the corrosion and leaving the aluminum alloy a different color, but not sure if the work would be worth it on such a small area. The spray paint fix, even though a close match to the Alcoa clear coat, is not perfect. If you chose to fix yourself, drill out and remove the rivet at the new problem area. Replace the rivet when fix complete. (Dremel Tool has small little buffing/sanding wheels that work very well on the aluminum skin and easy to use on small areas.)
Good Luck
Howard
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06-18-2014, 02:01 PM
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#1979
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Rivet Master
2007 Interstate
Normal
, Illinois
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 18,051
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Thank you for your sympathy, and for your excellent advice.
The new spot is not at a rivet, it just appeared on the ceiling.
I hadn't thought of there still being moisture, just thought the corrosion was doing what corrosion does, working its way to wherever.
I will get out there and feel inside the light area. We stopped at JC and had them replace that light for us last year, because the area had corroded so badly the light bits & pieces basically fell apart.
The light no longer worked, and the little spring thingies that hold it up had broken apart. They didn't mention any moisture up there, nor did we see or feel any when it was hanging down, but that doesn't mean it isn't there.
It had not occurred to me that I could fix this myself, either. I thought that the corrosion coming thru from the other side of that panel would just continue unless it was replaced.
Won't it?
Maggie
__________________
🏡 🚐 Cherish and appreciate those you love. This moment could be your last.🌹🐚
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06-19-2014, 12:57 AM
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#1980
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Rivet Master
2012 30' Flying Cloud
San Antonio
, Texas
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 681
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""It had not occurred to me that I could fix this myself, either. I thought that the corrosion coming thru from the other side of that panel would just continue unless it was replaced.
Won't it?""
If you remove what ever is causing corrosion, clean the area and then protect (cover coat with corrosion x or paint) the corroded spot, it will stop. Trouble is your problem is coming from between the inner and outer hull. That can only mean to me that you have moisture in there and probably a dissimilar metal working on the aluminum. You say there is no rivet at the new spot. That means the corrosion has worked completely through the interior skin. For that to happen, moisture and probably a piece of dissimilar metal must be up there--a steel screw or something laying in contact with inside of the aluminum panel. Really, to fix it for certain, you probably would need to remove that panel, water test from the outside, repair any leak, install new dry insulation and then replace the inside panel. Short of that, I would re-caulk everything on that suspect skylight or fan opening on the roof and any suspect seam close by. Then, after you are sure the insulation is dry, do those touch up repairs on the ceiling panel.
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