Corrosion problems with new Airstreams

[Howard L.]

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

Hello Paso...

I've tried the WalberStuff several times...not impressed. Its not a very good sealant, polish or wax.

We all have our preferences, mine is Griot's Paint Sealant, once a year. (16oz will last 3-4 applications using an orbital)
The Mop on a stick works really well for washing.
You'll find their products first rate with great customer service.

You get close to the salt water?.... seal and wax regularly and keep a regular maintenance/inspection schedule.

Bob

The first exposure to salt or salt air, watch closely the following days/weeks. That's when filiform will show up on any non sealed spot.

[PharmGeek]

my new rig has been on foley's lot since last thursday...ill pick it up on 11/15....how much salt air will reach that spot in gulfport MS? I will be right after picking it up washing it, sealing it, the and aplying anti-corrosive treatments thereafter and watching like a hawk...wondering if slight salty air will be a factor....just checked google...7 miles from the coast.... either way, same routine, but just thinking while I obsessively await 11/15

[ROBERT CROSS]

Pharm's getting antsie.....

Give yourself time when picking up. Don't be in too much of a hurry.
Video the dealer walk-thru & hitch-up, take notes and be your inquisitive self.
Ask to make your first overnight camp-out on the dealers lot.
Try everything twice and enjoy!!

Bob

[moosetags]

Originally Posted by PharmGeek

my new rig has been on foley's lot since last thursday...ill pick it up on 11/15....how much salt air will reach that spot in gulfport MS? I will be right after picking it up washing it, sealing it, the and aplying anti-corrosive treatments thereafter and watching like a hawk...wondering if slight salty air will be a factor....just checked google...7 miles from the coast.... either way, same routine, but just thinking while I obsessively await 11/15

We traded in Lucy at Foley's. We are planning to pick up the new 23FB at Foley's around the same time.

Brian

[Sky]

Originally Posted by PharGeek

.... either way, same routine, but just thinking while I obsessively await 11/15

Hey PG, don't ya think "obsessively" is a little bit of an understatement lol? Just teasing you, congrats on your new pride and joy. Looking forward to meeting you and your family, and seeing your airstream at the CanOpener.

[SteveSueMac]

Hi - so Airstream authorized my dealer to install new clearance light castings on the trailer and to correct the early filiform that had resulted at the corner of each clearance light.

The castings look very cool and somehow more retro to my eye.

Below are 2 pics. One with the original lights and some filiform, the other with the replacement and repaired filiform (meaning, no longer there).

I noticed, however, a pin hole in the caulk (please I hope it's not silicone - but I have no idea). It's tiny, but water will find its way in. I noticed the same on some but not all (haven't looked closely at the higher ones). Some have a gap in the caulk at the bottom of the fixture. I'm wondering if that's intentional for draining or just poor workmanship?

DW and I are hoping to make a trip to the mothership in April for a recliner setup like dkottum's and will have them review this an several other items. Just wondering if folks here have any thoughts on this?

Thanks!

[ROBERT CROSS]

Steve,

Those do look nice!! Do you have a pic showing the whole lamp?

Can't really comment on the new style LED light housing.
I only know that ours are sealed all the way around at the base, no gaps.
The factory didn't put sealant on the base of the lens, ours has a gasket inside the housing.
I do seal the lens with Acryl-r on the outside, and have filed a small notch in the lens to prevent condensation.


I see a very small gap at the pointy end...that it? That sealant doesn't look like sillycone to me...Parbond more likely.

Bob

[dkottum]

SteveSueMac, your install looks just like Jackson Center did for mine and that is the right way to do it. All three components must be caulked to the next or they will buildup moisture (water) inside. The bottom of the your Classic bezel needs to be left open to drain any moisture out.

Seal all pinholes as soon as possible. They will leak water inside. On the top three aft fixtures they sealed them all around on mine. There was a pinhole in one of them and it nearly filled with water before I noticed it. I drilled a hole near the bottom of the bezel and the water just poured out. I drilled another hole in the top of the lens (out of sight) so it could dry out, then resealed those holes. No more problems.

Off-topic note: My recliner install is for a 2012 FC with dinette in front. It includes two recliners, little center console, folding table from the 30" recliner model, and a custom cabinet. No rewiring. The furnace is on the opposite side as your FB model; your furnace may have to be moved forward to install the folding table. Not a big deal for Jackson Center, but mention that when you ask for a estimate. I saved the dinette parts when I took all this out thinking we may put them back in for some reason. After several weeks using the recliners I can assure you that will never happen. These are really good recliners, I'm sitting in one right now and it is very comfortable. I highly recommend them to those with medium size Airstreams needing only seating for two, especially for long-term use.

[SteveSueMac]

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

Steve,

Those do look nice!! Do you have a pic showing the whole lamp?

Can't really comment on the new style LED light housing.
I only know that ours are sealed all the way around at the base, no gaps.
(Snip)

I see a very small gap at the pointy end...that it? That sealant doesn't look like sillycone to me...Parbond more likely.

Bob

Yes, that little pin hole is the one I'm talking about. So I'm guessing I find "parabond" somewhere and just seal over it.

No - I should have taken pics of the full lamp. Will try to hit the storage yard tomorrow for one. Here's another angle on the same one - there's a gap in the caulk at the bottom...hmmm - more parabond :-)




I do love the look - quite retro!

[SteveSueMac]

Thanks Doug. I guess the dealer didn't quite get it right. I'll try to seal for now and then had Jackson have a look. Thanks for the tip on the recliners. We're going to TRY to keep the portion of the couch that has a pull out for a bed and use 2 recliners. That may not work and of so, we'll go with just the one. Calling this week to set it up for an April trip.

[dkottum]

Originally Posted by SteveSueMac

Thanks Doug. I guess the dealer didn't quite get it right. I'll try to seal for now and then had Jackson have a look. Thanks for the tip on the recliners. We're going to TRY to keep the portion of the couch that has a pull out for a bed and use 2 recliners. That may not work and of so, we'll go with just the one. Calling this week to set it up for an April trip.

Dealer does have it right, don't seal the bottom edges as they allow inevitable water (sooner or later) to drain. Just fix the pin holes.

[SteveSueMac]

Originally Posted by dkottum

Dealer does have it right, don't seal the bottom edges as they allow inevitable water (sooner or later) to drain. Just fix the pin holes.

Oh - I missed that. You're saying the gap in caulk/parabond between the trailer shell and the bottom of the light casing is intentional? If so, I can just be on a pinhole search.

[dkottum]

Also Steve' I just noticed in your last photo there may be moisture on the inside lens surface. Perhaps from a pin holes in the sealant, or aiming the hose at the underside when washing. The opening in the bottom edge sealant may allow this to dry out, and is the reason for not sealing all around.

[rgwatkin]

Somewhere in this long thread I saw someone not recommend Walburizing but use "Griots Paint Sealer". Does anyone have any experience with this? I am in the process of moving to within a couple of miles of the Pacific coast and want to be very careful. I have a 2012 FC and to date have not touched it with anything other then frequent washings. Any recommendations on what to use? Any by the way...once you see any corrosion it has gone inter granular and your fixes are difficult if not impossible.

[ROBERT CROSS]

Been using Griot's Sealer since getting the Classic, best product I've tried...good discussion here.

Bob

[dkottum]

Originally Posted by rgwatkin

Somewhere in this long thread I saw someone not recommend Walburizing but use "Griots Paint Sealer". Does anyone have any experience with this? I am in the process of moving to within a couple of miles of the Pacific coast and want to be very careful. I have a 2012 FC and to date have not touched it with anything other then frequent washings. Any recommendations on what to use? Any by the way...once you see any corrosion it has gone inter granular and your fixes are difficult if not impossible.

I don't think paint sealer or polish in itself will protect the cut exposed edges, rivet holes, and external fittings from corrosion. Polish and treating with CorrosionX, and Boeshield T-9 for the underbody steel, has kept our trailer absolutely corrosion free since new, 15 months traveling.

Pretty good discussion and summary in this thread pages 120-123.

[Howard L.]

Originally Posted by SteveSueMac

Oh - I missed that. You're saying the gap in caulk/parabond between the trailer shell and the bottom of the light casing is intentional? If so, I can just be on a pinhole search.

SteveSue, if the dealer followed JCs instruction sheet, they used Acryl R for the sealing of, like Doug said, all 3 pieces: cast base to aluminum skin, old plastic Chrome base to new cast Classic base, and LED light fixture to its original plastic chrome base. Leave a small drain opening at the lower side of each Classic base and the trailer skin. Any pin hole will let moisture in so re-seal with Acryl R or aluminum color ParBond will work. Order Acryl R from JC. ParBond on internet. If you already have moisture in any of your LEDs, let it dry out before resealing with Acryl R. (Try a heat lamp or light bulb next to the LED for a few days.). Alcohol is solvent for clean up of Acryl R and ParBond.

[Howard L.]

Originally Posted by dkottum

I don't think paint sealer or polish in itself will protect the cut exposed edges, rivet holes, and external fittings from corrosion. Polish and treating with CorrosionX, and Boeshield T-9 for the underbody steel, has kept our trailer absolutely corrosion free since new, 15 months traveling. Pretty good discussion and summary in this thread pages 120-123.

Said this before, but will repeat here. The overlapping edges are one of the prime spots for the beginning of filiform. Most probably because of damage of clear coat on the edges during JC construction of the unit. If you will go over all edges with a clear coat using a fine point artist touch up brush, you will insure that you have no skinned off or missing clear coat areas and thus nip that problem in the bud. The other areas such as rivets, and even the edges after re-clear coating, still need the maintenance of Corrosion X, etc on a regular basis to keep your unit corrosion free. (Corrosion free = wishful thinking but at least we try). Also, when you treat any small area of filiform with corrosion x, if you will seal that area in with that same touch brush of clear coat, you will have sealed moisture out and a small residue do the corrosion x in. That corrosion should be neutralized for good.

[Gene]

Pin holes happen for a couple of reasons (I think). One is contraction as the sealant dries and leaves a pinhole. The other is when caulking with sealant, the caulk may be a lot thinner than you realize when applying it. Caulking is an art that takes experience and few of us do it that often to be good at it. Sometimes I get the bead just right, but as time goes by, I want to get it over with and have to watch that I am not applying it too fast leaving too thin a bead.

My solution is to put a lot on, often leaving a mess hard to clean up, but it seals better. When the sealant dries, check it out for pinholes and go back and apply some more. Going over it a 2nd time is a pain after you've put the caulking gun away and want to be done with it, but it is a good practice to check your work after a week or two. I confess, I don't check it after a week or two, but my sloppy method must work, because I haven't had a leak in more than a year. To make the sloppiness disappear, don't wash the trailer and hope the coating of dirt acts as an additional sealant.

Gene

[rippie]

Originally Posted by Moflash

It just seems upon close inspection that our trailers seem to have filform in the areas where steel screws fasten parts to the aluminum structure ie taillight bezels,grab handles,clearance lights,wheel trim,rear bumper etc.
And on electrified components it seems to get bad quick (tail light housings,clearance lights)c.Could it bee that stringing 12 volt wiring thru out a aluminum on steel grounding structure and energizing it create a problem?
When I changed out my 15 inch wheels for 16's my trailer had less than 800 miles and I noticed filform on the aluminum wheels around every lug nut hole in a perfect circle that each hole had the exact same pattern of corrosion (thats 20 holes).My trailer has never been near the ocean and is hand washed and dried before during and after use(top and bottom),hand waxed at least 3 times a year with a ultra high grade polymer wax (I even wax the frame)and stored indoors when not in use on a plastic covered floor so that moisture does not wick up from the ground.Yes I use Boeshield and Corrosion X but It still forms This leads me to believe alot of this corrosion is caused by electrolysis.Along the seams where the two pieces of aluminum sheeting meet is also a problem area for our trailers and everyone points the finger at sloppy handling of the sheets chipping off the clear coat.But could it actually be the rivet stems being a different metal composition are creating a positive vs negative charge and thus contaminating the area and allowing electrolysis to work its magic and gain a quick foothold in the areas where the clear coat has been chipped.And plcing the structure next to salt water would amplify and speed up the process. Food for thought , just a theory.....
Any degreed electrical engineers out there I would like to here what you have to say.

I think Moflash, you are spot on. This needs to be considered methodically. First of all, this should be approached as a condition (I won' t say disease). I have skimmed through this thread. In the beginning it took awhile for enough people to step forward and finally conclude that the condition exists. Does anyone feel a condition does not exist?

Then reports came on the location of the affected areas: rear tail lights, license plate lights, front door handle/ locks, hubs and midline with intermittent rivets and panels affected.
But it seems to me that you could say the issue follows the places where there are most likely leaks in electricity and will concentrate on areas with the purest and thickest Aluminum or water on it's way to the ground. Corrosion forms as a way for the metal to complete the circuit. And it would seem that clearcoating may have only dispersed the charge.

Imagine a charge that may be given off now held in. It seems that most have assumed that the problem was related to direct contact with environmental factors. But if eliminating the environment were the fix, then clear coat would be the cure. But it has been more of a smokescreen (and I do not mean intentionally). The point is that environment and sealing all have an effect on the condition, but none are the cure. Do I know the cure? Not without effectively determining the problem. But there is a cure.

I am not an expert on almost any of the elements involved, but I am a logical thinker. And a methodological one. And I do not have a newer trailer. My first impression when I discovered the corrosion on my trailer was that it looked like what was my first experience with corrosion as a child-- Batteries left in a toy for too long, leaving a thick, white, crusty exudate.

So I have a simple theory- The Trailers themselves become batteries due to the 12 volt systems and the wiring all around. Maybe better thought of as amplifiers for the smaller batteries they contain, especially volatile due to the grounding of the Al-contained systems to steel. Now this is only theory and I really don't even have enough knowledge of electronics to test it. But I'm not sure I have even seen anyone suggest to perform scientific testing on this. And I know I surely do not have the time or the means.

But in using the scientific method, you need controls. This is the only way to isolate different conditions to determine causation. For example, Take a any production year. Let's say 2003. Look at one that has had what would be considered a typical life (exposed to weather, maybe some storage inside, but many outings). Then another 2003 that was never used outside of a garage, but had still been camped in inside the garage with utilization of electrical systems, water hookups, tanks, etc. just never outside. Finally, the same production year that had seen no activity at all discovered hidden away at JC under a tarp. You can isolate different characteristics to help determine causality. Upon inspection, it would be most interesting to see the differences in the skins and levels of corrosion.

You may have an idea of what you would find in each case, But you wouldn't know for sure unless you tested. If Airstream has any scientists, they should be performing some tests, especially in response to the type of issues I have read about here. And maybe they are or even have. But it could be as simple as taking small squares of Al skin material and some of the fixtures (rivets, handles, light) and exposing them to all sorts of different combinations of components (coating, bare, surface, edge, electrical forces, grounded, ungrounded, water, steel, etc. in proximity to wiring), etc., you get the idea.

I think the difficulty is that there are so many factors and the models and methods change over time. But I would not have been so interested in this topic had I not just found serious corrosion due to the rear end floor rot on my '72. It just seems in my case it was a result of a prolonged issue of neglect and design flaw that took its time to appear. But it seems that the issues have become more pronounced over time with seemingly more attention having been paid to means that should be improving it, like plastic coating.

Regardless, my feeling is that it has definitely something to do with electricity. Any other factors, like environment and design are pertinent in their influence over the electrical circuit. I am also guessing that Airstreams are getting bigger batteries and more voltage over time due to increased technology demands as well. So, any scientists out there with free time willing to test the "Airstream as a big battery with ground leaks" theory.

When someone reports having issues, I think the health of and especially any modifications to the electrical system should be noted to determine common denominators. For instance, what if there were some faulty, improperly grounded convertors installed at JC that may be the cause? Just some thoughts... There have been excellent observations and communications, but until tested, all we have are guesses. Most of the exchanges seem to focus on symptoms, but not the cure.