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Old 03-25-2009, 02:16 PM   #813
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My AS looks fantastic on the inside! Although I donot like the outside appearance and personally think something should be done by AS, I DON'T CARE WHAT OTHERS THINK!! Do you? perhaps that is part of the problem.. jim
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Old 03-25-2009, 02:45 PM   #814
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.. I DON'T CARE WHAT OTHERS THINK!! Do you? jim
Kind'a
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Old 03-25-2009, 05:17 PM   #815
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My AS looks fantastic on the inside! Although I donot like the outside appearance and personally think something should be done by AS
Jim...what model and year Airstream do you have? Do you have any description of the issue relating to corrosion of a new(er) Airstream (2000 to present model year)? If you do have the issue, can you post any pics of the problem?

Also, Safari28, when you go get your unit, can you also post descriptions of the problems and also pictures. I realize you are away from your trailer by a significant distance, but when you finally get back to it, can you remember to take some pics and post your findings, good, bad or otherwise?

Thanks!
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Old 03-25-2009, 07:51 PM   #816
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I like this thread and think if you have a lot of time, there some valuable information you can glean from spending 4-5 hours reading from start to finish. There may be a reason that about 1/4 of the posts in this thread are from the same person. Here's my take on why there's not more people jumping on the bash-Airstream bandwagon. The average new (2004 or later) airstream owner probably fits into one of three categories:

1 - Paid cash in full - he or she recognizes that the $40 to $80K, had it not gone toward the airstream might be invested in the market would be worth two thirds today ($25 to 50K). The $10 to 20K lost in depreciation, use, and/or corrosion, seams reasonable, particularly if they've had a good trip or two.

2- Financed part of all of it (when they could have paid cash) - he or she wishes they paid full in cash. That $52,000 left in stocks is now worth $30,000. If I (I mean he or she) had just paid the damn thing off the $52,000 would be worth about $40K a year later, or $10K better than that same pile of dough is worth sitting in the stock market.

3- Financed part or all of it and couldn't really afford it (not much different than many homeoners today). Barely enough savings/income to cover the interest/loan payment, and wishing they didn't owe $50K in a loan on an asset that's only worth $40K today. Regretting they did not buy an older one and incrementally put in sweat equity/$ as time/finances permitted.

I guess that in general the Airstream, even if we overpaid and even if it depreciated in value quicker than we hoped, looks better than the alternative investment options Perhaps many of us think the return we received, in terms of life experience, relationship building, family bonding is better than the expected 7% financial return we should have earned in the market.

I run a retirement community and when a single resident gets angry and complains endlessly, they often say, "you mean I have no vote in how this place is run?" I remind them they can vote-- with their feet-- some take me up on the offer and my quality of life improves, others do not because they've made complaining part of their lifestyle. The optimistic residents accept their sacrifices and make the most of their new friendships and relationships with family.

I think Airstream owners by nature are optimists. They look at the glass half full, and appreciate the return on their investment in terms of the quaility of life enhancement and don't fuss over the minor sacrifices. Owning the coolest trailer on the market when they could have paid less for something far larger and fancier inside is enough for them.

If my airstream develops the corrosion issues, I'll sell it once the appearance of the outside bothers me more than I enjoy using it. Anyway that my 4 cents on why this thread has a few vocal zealots, a number of people who monitor for entertainment, and a lot of members who probably never bother to read more than a handful of the 800 posts.

Cheers,
Craig
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Old 03-25-2009, 08:04 PM   #817
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I like this thread and think if you have a lot of time, there some valuable information you can glean from spending 4-5 hours reading from start to finish.

Interesting perspective....we're all entitled to our opinions.

But I will be honest, the categories are somewhat meaningless because we're not here discussing the ownership types, we're discussing a production problem. In the 4-5 hours of reading (which is being compiled) you'd find far more than a few folks here who have what I consider a defect and a significant defect of a unit. If you choose to call them, us or I a zealot, so be it, again, opinions are not being suppressed here, but I fail to see the benefit of this particular post other than a jab or to incite. If this has humor content for you, that was clearly not the intention. The intention was to gather info. I'll admit as some threads do, they stray, and this one is no exception, but I am the thread creator and of course I have a vested interest in it's course, which is probably why you referred to one poster as having about 1/4 of the posts.

Enjoy the comedy hour here if that is your goal, but please don't belittle the situation, it's not a laughing matter.
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Old 03-25-2009, 08:25 PM   #818
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Interesting perspective....we're all entitled to our opinions.

But I will be honest, the categories are somewhat meaningless because we're not here discussing the ownership types, we're discussing a production problem. In the 4-5 hours of reading (which is being compiled) you'd find far more than a few "zealots" here.
Okay, well I'll make an amedment to my post. I do think that the "zealots" (as I might have overexaggerated) provide an important role. Without a doubt the longest thread on airforums has to draw significant attention in the company, even if Airstream management is not directly addressing them. While the complainers in my retirement community do take up a lot of time, they keep me on my toes and keep me from getting too lax with the resident concerns.

I do think this thread must be causing some behind-the-scenes action on the part of Airstream. For liability and cost reasons we're not seeing the direct outcome of that attention, but I suspect all this energy will (or perhaps already has) improved quality of their future product line. So the time invested in this thread is adding or will add value for current and future airstream owners.
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Old 03-25-2009, 10:17 PM   #819
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Airstream knows...

As 1cericks1 stated above, I have to think that it is obvious that Airstream is completely aware of the corrosion problems. They won't admit anything because "it could be used against them in a court of law." I am sure they have a lawyer present telling them that. In the mean time, I as I previously have stated seemed to have arrested the corrosion by waxing the daylights out of my AS---especially at the waist line.
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Old 03-26-2009, 03:51 AM   #820
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Being in a position where I am looking to buy a UK 684 Airstream , and the fact I have emailed Airstream and asked for their comments , 3 weeks and no reply . Pretty much sums up the comments on this thread that Airstream do not care . You cannot ignore the fact there is a problem with corrosion. Yes some people are very vocal with their views , but if i was pulling a giant silver SCAB down the road believing I had bought the best money can buy , I would be shouting from the rooftops.
What is strange how people can buy a $50 item from costco and take it straight back and demand a refund when it does not deliver or fails . The dye runs on a shirt ( not the 100c wash ) Spend 2 hours on the phone demanding compensation as it ruined their night out.
Something is not quite right this item is $75,000, I for one am not a t shirt wearer that pays homage to the Airstream gods . Can someone please explain why I have had no reply and when I have asked my dealer to give a 5 year warranty on corrosion , he was like a cat being sick ( they always walk backwards) . If I was at Airstream and knew it was a localised problem and only 1% of owners , I would be the 1st to post.
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Old 03-26-2009, 06:15 AM   #821
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I am a number one because I learned a number 3 was not the way to go. I am not rich, just careful,. I own a 19 foot bambi 2005 with major problems along the beltline. I think tis trailer was used mostly at the beach here in florida, but since I am the second owner I can't be positive. I was aware of the problem when I bought this but was more concerned about camping and traveling than how the exterior looked. This doesn't mean that I let the outside get dirty or dented. I also owned a 02? 22 foot ccd. It also showed signs of the corrosion and I think this was 05 or 06. The only AS of that era that I currently own without the problem is an 05 Interstate of course it isn't aluminum and is just about bulletproof. So everything AS sold in those years did not have the problem, you just have to like B vans!! [attempt at humor]. I do not know how to post pictures but perhaps my wife computer genius in this house will show me. Keep up the fight but don't let this problem ruin all the fun you can have travrling and camping in your AS . jim
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Old 03-26-2009, 07:06 AM   #822
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Keep up the fight but don't let this problem ruin all the fun you can have travrling and camping in your AS . jim
Agreed and good point Jim.

Thanks for posting your info and if you can manage at some point I'd be interested in the pics of the belt line.

Cakey, I would suggest calling Airstream. I realize that it is an International call, and although I don't expect them to say a whole lot, they may tell you what they are doing post production. I stress the may because the real only safe bet for them not opening up a can of worms would be to quietly fix the issue, which we will see in future production models. I am still not sure how safe that may be because we're all watching and any sudden stop may get noticed anyway, but bottom line I would be happy that something at long last was done to protect future owners from going through what we've been through.
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Old 03-26-2009, 05:47 PM   #823
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YEAH......zealots unite!!

Let the fun begin!
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Old 03-26-2009, 06:43 PM   #824
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The process of denial

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They won't admit anything because "it could be used against them in a court of law." I am sure they have a lawyer present telling them that.
Some lawyers will tell a company to be quiet, and there are times when it's best to stay quiet, generally once litigation starts. But it often is the executives, not the lawyers, who can't admit they have made any mistakes or there are any problems. They fear the shareholders, the Wall St. analysts, and they are a personality type that is aggressive and can't admit mistakes. Lawyers have problems with those type of clients.

A good lawyer will tell them to cut their losses, a product liability suit is a PR disaster and very expensive, and sooner or later QC problems will destroy your reputation and the company. Unfortunately for the shareholders and the customers, this type of executive doesn't listen. Once litigation starts the problem is magnified many times and then it is impossible to admit anything until there is a settlement. The costs for the company mount and mount. Reputation suffers. See General Motors as an example.

There's another factor—when the company execs can't solve the problem, they can't admit that either. They may be looking hard for solutions, getting more scared all the time, because they see the losses mounting up, sales falling, more and more customers complaining, and are afraid they'll lose their jobs if they say anything.

It's like a politician caught with his pants down—first they deny, then they hide, then they give a fake apology ("if I have offended anyone…"), get counseling, well, you know the process.

Corporate execs (and successful politicians) are mostly pretty smart, but when there's a mistake, when they are caught, they can't admit it, so they deny it, hide, dissemble. They should know it's the worst thing they can do, but they don't. They get in deeper and deeper and can't find a way out. So, it's not so much the lawyers, it's the boss.

Whether this is what's happening at Airstream, I don't know. I do know the pattern has been repeated countless times when a company's products have problems which cause a lot of customers to be upset. It's worse when the customers bought an icon, it costs a lot, and they feel betrayed (compare "a woman scorned" as an example).

Gene
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Old 03-26-2009, 06:57 PM   #825
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This problem is the reason people encourage their State Legislators to enact a lemon law for RV's. Good luck on your problem.
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Old 03-26-2009, 08:28 PM   #826
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- Bad publicity is a company's worst nightmare.
- The Internet is a research tool that many people are using to research major (and minor) purchases.
- A Google search of "Airstream" shows airforums.com as the fifth entry.
- A little surfing of the Airforums site will find this corrosion thread, and the various "Quality Problems with the 200X" threads.

Airstream must be aware of this. Furthermore they must be aware that they are losing business because of it, lots of business.

Yet, having been in Corporate America for the past 30 years, I know that they are focused on:

- Reducing per unit labor costs through automation and process "improvement".
- Reducing raw material costs through competitive bidding and purchases from Asia.
- Reducing defects through "quality efforts". This is both assembly and vendor supplied material quality to the existing standards - not the flaws in those standards that we are interested in here.
- Increasing sales through Marketing and Sales. This is where they believe that new ad text and photos, and aggresive salespeople, can sell refrigerators to Eskimos in January.

They completely miss the idea that the Internet has changed the world, especially for high value, niche products, like Airstream. The true value proposition of their product (what you get vs. what you pay) as interpreted by their customers (us) is echoed around the world in seconds through the Internet.

We will tolerate a missing screw, a defective appliance, or even poor tires - because each of these can be fixed! We will not tolerate the rapid self destruction of the basic shell of the trailer - that cannot be fixed! As owners we can be Airstream's best salespeople, or their worst nightmare. It is (well past) time for them to deal with it, or surely Airstream will pass into Corporate history.
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