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Old 03-24-2009, 09:11 AM   #799
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Originally Posted by Al - K4GLU View Post
Every once in awhile I try and convince myself I'm making too big a deal out of this. I'm in the market for a new trailer. I'm fulltiming in a 20' Safari and I want something with dual axles. Was even considering biting the bullet and getting a 23' Flying Cloud.

Then someone posts pictures like denellen which makes my problem look mild.

NO WAY!
I can completely understand this..... I feel very similarly. I wanted to upgrade to a 31 footer.....guess where that plan wound up?!

If I ever do upgrade, it will be for a pre-owned unit. I will never pay top dollar for another brand new unit with this issue lurking out there. You can't convince me that Danellen's pics and the pics posted on page 49 of this thread don't devalue the unit beyond it's normal depreciation, let alone the costs involved in stripping and re-coating the trailer, and for trailers this young for that matter. What Danellen is seeing is really only the tip of the iceberg. It is going to get progressively worse as time goes on. When that unit hits it's 5th birthday, it's is going to be completely marred with this stuff all over and the bad spots now, will most likely be so bad that there will be no choice but to do something-- of course at the owner's cost.

I would continue to encourage folks to post pics of their issue if they have not.
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Old 03-24-2009, 11:02 AM   #800
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Originally Posted by SRW View Post
The following is a product that claims to help control filiform corrosion:

LPS 3 00316 Heavy-Duty Inhibitor 11oz. Aerosol*::*Corrosion Inhibitors*::*HeavyDutyStore.com

The add says:

-Stops exfoliation of filiform corrosion of aluminum -Stops rust and corrosion; protects steel up to 2 years -Penetrates to displace moisture -Resists moisture, sand, dirt, dust and vibration -Does not contain chlorinated solvents or silicone -Nonconducti

Does anyone have experience with this product?

SRW
LPS is commonly used in the aircraft world... I use LPS-3 to lube rod ends, bushings, and bearings on flight controls and retractable landing gear components. LPS-3 also prevents corrosion. However... LPS-3 is thick and waxy, and will not wick under clearcoat to stop filliform corrosion.
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Old 03-24-2009, 11:34 AM   #801
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Does filiform corrosion take place on uncoated aluminum?

I've heard differing opinions of weather this is the case or not.

Dmac, are you sure that aircraft are not clearcoated? I don't know how Boeing and Other aircraft manufacturers deal with this issue, but I'm certain that they have been over this ground before.
Aircraft are either painted, or left bare aluminum. Planes often use 2024 T-3 aluminum for skins. The skin is treated with alodine and alumiprep, primed with epoxy strontium chromate, MIL-P-23377, then painted with 2-part polyurethane paint. The paint is shiny, and does not use a clear coat on top. Unpainted surfaces on some small planes are just polished and waxed, just like with a polished trailer. I don't know what the airlines do.

My 1960 Beechcraft Debonair airplane, now 49 years old, only has one spot of corrosion that is about the size of a dime, which I keep covered with LPS-3. Also, the inside (unpainted side) of the skins still look new.
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Old 03-24-2009, 01:10 PM   #802
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Would there be an interest in a primed/painted trailer..painted with high quality silver metallic paint? For the case of discussion lets say a no cost option.
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Old 03-24-2009, 01:49 PM   #803
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I would not be objectionable to a painted Airstream, as long as it looked like Big Al's trailer.

My thing though would be to take it to P&S and have 'em strip it and re-seal it. I am betting it would last longer than the factory finish has and keep the trailer looking original. One perk to stripping and re-sealing is that once re-sealed, most of the areas that Airstream opened up during the construction process would be closed an not allow as much of this to happen, which is sort of my main argument that Airstream just needs to bite the bullet and treat these trailers on their own. I mean the auto industry does it, why can't Airstream via Thor? Automakers don't get pre-painted body panels and assemble them. They build the car to a point, prime, paint and finish. Airstream is taking pre-coated sheets, disturbing the coating and the end result is what we see here.

If say GM built this way, there would be lots of clear coat and paint breaches that would allow corrosion in the form of rust to begin. Seems to me this was a really great idea Airstream had getting the sheets pre-treated, but in the end, in retrospect, it has not. IMHO the alum has not delivered on the promise Aloca has stated. Is that Aloca's fault? Airstream's? I could care less, I just want a finish that lasts, with little to no issues for between 5 and 10 years....longer would be better, but I'm not greedy.
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Old 03-24-2009, 02:08 PM   #804
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Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie View Post
Airstream is taking pre-coated sheets, disturbing the coating and the end result is what we see here.
And this is it in a sentence. How do you propose riveting the trailer together without disturbing the coating? Or realistically stop wear and tear from flexing, expansion, object strikes, etc, from opening up tiny gaps in the coating at the attachment points? By design our trailers will corrode in suitable conditions.

This is one reason why I think frequent washing and application of acf 50 to rivets, as a preventive measure prior to damage, is very likely to minimize damage of trailers near the ocean or used in salty environments.

At least by painting we can prime, and have a more easily repaired finish in the case of local failure.
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Old 03-24-2009, 02:36 PM   #805
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And this is it in a sentence. How do you propose riveting the trailer together without disturbing the coating?

At least by painting we can prime, and have a more easily repaired finish in the case of local failure.
By treating the finish after it is built in a similar manner to that in which the auto industry assembles and finishes their vehicles. I don't disagree that paint will be a far better serviceable finish, but it would be my last resort since paint is not the same as exposed alum.

I know that even treating the finish post production still may yield a finish that degrades over time, but my point is that if properly maintained, it is not unrealistic to get more than 6 months or 1 year as the current methods in place seem to provide to a significant and growing number of new Airstream customers. Look at the work P and S does. You think a well cared for Airstream after P and S finishes it looks as bad as the new Airstream units that are about a year or two old? The answer is they don't. Why? They seal the RV post production. If P and S can do it, why not the factory itself? Do you think P and S is not liable or held to the same environmental issues that faced and face Airstream? Let me tell ya, there are few differences between Airstream and P and S in the eyes of the EPA, so again, why can't Airstream do what P and S does to their production trailers rolling off the line?

My guess is that it's a money issue. Airstream didn't want to invest in a whole post production clear or coating facility and at the time Aloca's solution made sense. Flash forward 10 years and materials and technology have changed since 1999. I find it difficult to accept that a more suitable solution to post production coating could not have been found by now. At this point we have nearly 10 years of trailers with this Aloca coating, which does seem to last, if the coating is not disturbed, which we all know that it's impossible not to distrub the coating during production, so why keep doing the same thing? I think it's simply a cost issue and fools like us continue to buy the new units, even knowing the issue is out there. There is very little motivation for the company to fix the issue if there are still buyers out there. Until Airstream gets their heads out of their behinds, P and S is going to get a LOT of business and frankly at some point, Airstream is going to feel this issue come back to bite them....just as Harley-Davidson did years ago.
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Old 03-24-2009, 07:39 PM   #806
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ST

The record skipping again?
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Old 03-24-2009, 08:03 PM   #807
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"........My guess is that it's a money issue. Airstream didn't want to invest in a whole post production clear or coating facility and at the time Aloca's solution made sense. Flash forward 10 years and materials and technology have changed since 1999. I find it difficult to accept that a more suitable solution to post production coating could not have been found by now. At this point we have nearly 10 years of trailers with this Aloca coating, which does seem to last, if the coating is not disturbed, which we all know that it's impossible not to distrub the coating during production, so why keep doing the same thing? I think it's simply a cost issue and fools like us continue to buy the new units, even knowing the issue is out there. There is very little motivation for the company to fix the issue if there are still buyers out there....."

I agree completely with your comments.

Also, the whole question of Airstream production methods, or lack thereof, contributing mightily to corrosion becomes even clearer when you read in the following add that Alcoa guarantees its wheels against filiform corrosion:

"On ordinary aluminum wheels, a coating is typically a layer of
baked powder that sits on top of the wheel surface. But, with
Alcoa Dura-Brightģ wheels, the patented treatment actually
penetrates the aluminum, forming a protective barrier that
becomes an integral part of the wheel. It completely eliminates
the cracking, peeling and filiform corrosion common in coated
wheels."



SRW
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Old 03-24-2009, 08:26 PM   #808
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ST

The record skipping again?
What are you talking about Bob (click) what are you talking (click) what are you ta (click) what are you.....
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Old 03-24-2009, 08:42 PM   #809
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Originally Posted by SRW;680070Also, the whole question of Airstream production methods, or lack thereof, contributing mightily to corrosion becomes even clearer when you read in the following add that Alcoa guarantees its wheels against filiform corrosion:

[FONT=&quot
"On ordinary aluminum wheels, a coating is typically a layer of[/FONT]
baked powder that sits on top of the wheel surface. But, with
Alcoa Dura-Brightģ wheels, the patented treatment actually
penetrates the aluminum, forming a protective barrier that
becomes an integral part of the wheel. It completely eliminates
the cracking, peeling and filiform corrosion common in coated
wheels."

Dura-Bright appears to have been around since about 2004. They also use Dura Brite on truck fuel tanks. Perhaps it could be used on an Airstream. I can't find any description of what it is though, other than the marketing hype.
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Old 03-25-2009, 11:37 AM   #810
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Well, since my last post I have been called a busybody, angry, bitter and I am sure more offline.

Still ,the thread is full of people trying to figure it out other than A/S, and it is just impressive to see such loyalty and pride. Its enough to make a grown man cry. The problem is A/S knows this,the culture of the company is one of we have no competition and and the customer drinks the kool aid and follows with blind loyalty. They know you all are worried about warranties, and parts and god forbid the secret gets out to the rest of the industry. Why, that pride of going down the road and passing a sob is just not the same. NOW THEY know we got ripped off as well. We all know it, but keep it in the family.WELL, So does A/S. Now I may be a busybody, but I am not an enabler. Our family has a dysfunctional member with bad habits. Intervention is the cure folks, not head in the sand denial.

I ended my last post with it is tough love. Since then I have called or written over 10 financial institutions to stop lending or at least be warned about new A/S products. I find the younger loan officers are willing to investigate as risk is a real issue for them these days. I have posted on 3 other rv forums and now trying to get to european versions as well. It seems A/S is following the cigarette companies of kill the domestics and move abroad.

It looks likes me and big can of wd 40 have a date with some rivets. Pitiful.
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Old 03-25-2009, 01:49 PM   #811
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Hey! this is a great idea, after all.

Lets see if we can get the banks to stop loaning on Ford and GM too! They don't get it right as much as I'd like them to either.

In fact, the banks seem to screw us as often as they can. Lets see if we can put them out of business.

Reminds me of an old saying, "DON'T THROW OUT THE BABY WITH THE BATHWATER".

Unless there's something wrong with the baby, of course.
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Old 03-25-2009, 02:12 PM   #812
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Why do you think you have the right to determine if someone wants to buy an AS? Like I said before, let as many people as you can know about the problem [I agree with you] but you cannot take away someone elses right to choose to buy or not. Do not try to be like the federal government and feel as if you have to decide what is best for the rest of us. Being a busybody is not necessarily bad. Even if you could convince a loan company not to deal on AS, when the applications start coming in the loans will be approved. Keep up the pressure on AS about this issue but do not take away someone elses right to choose... jim
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