Corrosion problems with new Airstreams

[Gene]

Dan, I think your right if the filiform has started. If not, I'm hoping it won't start. A preventative measure. I'm wondering why it seems the be more common on the beltline than on the other places where the panels are cut? Another corrosion mystery. I think the trailer looks better with the extrusion (trim), so I'm hoping for a win/win.

Gene

[dmac]

Originally Posted by CrawfordGene

I'm wondering why it seems the be more common on the beltline than on the other places where the panels are cut? Gene

I'm guessing that the beltline may be an Aistream cut edge, while some of the other edges with fewer corrosion problems may be mill cut prior to the application of the clear. The disturbance of the edge causes the clear to lift a little, and the filliform gets it's start.

Corrosion appears to be common wherever the aluminum was cut or drilled during assembly by Airstream, or where the finish has been hit by a stone, etc. It seems that salt, from sea air or road salt, makes the problem worse.

Once a corrosion cell gets a start, the worm tracks will progress unless some action is taken by the owner. I doubt that the spray-on corrosion preventive chemicals, like ACF-50 or Corrosion-X, are able to get far enough under the clear to reach the end of the worm track. Perhaps a very fine syringe could be used to inject the chemical under the clear into the worm track? I suspect that the only way to slow down the inevitable is to remove the clear over the affected area, remove the corrosion, and apply clear paint to seal it. Wet sanding is the best approach I have heard so far.

[Frody]

We have an 05 Safari with minor corrosion in spots along the beltline. AS provided the trim package and we were suppose to pay to have it installed by the dealer. After discussing it with the mechanic we opted not to put it on.

As has been stated, it is a band aid cover up and will not terminate the corrosion. I prefer to monitor the beginnings of corrosion and then nip them as the pop up. Covering the area with trim will not give me the access to the problem I think it warrants.

Yes, it does make the unit look good for a year or two. But when those little buggers spread beyond the trim, and they will, then what?

Further, if you examine the manner the trim is affixed, the bottom side of the trim is open to the elements and for drainage. So whatever is causing the corrosion continues to have access to the areas being affected.

My personal opinion on part of the cause, especially along the beltline, is when the metal was bowed or drilled for rivets to affix the the clear coat was breached exposing the metal to the elements causing the problem. Bottomline, it is an ipso facto case...manufacturer's defect. The facts speak for themselves.

Last, this thread is over two years old. No one is any closer to a viable solution short of self maintenance. Time to lawyer up and start a class action. I am tired of playing patty cake with AS. Given the economic conditions and the trend of corporate service and integrity (not), time to start discussing legal options.

[Silvertwinkie]

If someone had a viable option to go the litigation route, I would jump on, but again my initial thoughts early on were, heck yea, we need to get this thing going. Then, I thought about it and what would be the desired outcome of a class action?

1) A credit toward repair (there are no great repairs)

2) A credit toward a new Airstream (so far we've seen every model year have a showing of this problem so who really wants a possible second trailer with the same problem?)

3) Get some sort of monetary compensation (which most of it would be taken by the litigating lawyer)

My direction went from possible litigation to public information. If the factory would not solve or curtail the issue, then I would let everyone and their grandparents know what happened to my trailer. Others jumped on and posted pics of their trailers, their stories and of the factory now starting to walk away from the problem completely while under warranty claiming it as a "maintenance" issue, which we all know is totally false.

I would continue to suggest to everyone who has this problem to post pictures of it. Words are great, but pictures are worth a thousand words and as folks skim the pages of this novel sized thread, I am betting they stop to look at the pics than they read.

As I said earlier, this thread is typically in the top 3 search results of the major search engines by simply typing "problems with Airstreams". It's getting some attention and foot traffic for both current owners and customers looking to buy. Gene has indicated some production changes on some of the lines, which may or may not be a result of customer complaints on the issue. Time will tell what the final solution is, if there is any. As you can tell, this has been going on for several years now, and IMHO, long enough for the company's engineering teams to come up with a viable solution be it outright stopping the root cause, or significantly slowing the process from starting as early as 6 months off the factory floor.

[Gene]

I may get flamed for this, but just for a moment, think about: what if there is no solution? In any analysis of a problem, one possible answer is there is no answer.

But on the other hand, how about coating the edges of the cut aluminum with clear coat? When I carpenter cuts wood siding or treated lumber as for a deck, he or she is supposed to coat the edges with a preservative to prevent deterioration. The same goes for the back of siding that is to be painted or sealed ("back priming"). Perhaps we should (or the factory should) use clear coat on all the edges to prevent corrosion. Once it's started it's too late where it's started, but it's not too late where it hasn't.

Gene

[dmac]

I think that you are right... there is no current solution. Even sealing the edges would only help for a while. A better coating is needed, yet may not exist.

For now, many of us would like a repair procedure that would stop the corrosion locally, yet not look awfull. Something like:

- what grit wet sandpaper, or other abrasive tool, to use such that the mill surface grain of the aluminum is simulated
- what cleaning or prep chemicals to use on the sanded surface
- a spray can or bottle of clear paint that will adhere to aluminum and be reasonablly weather resistant

If the Company can't/won't help with this, I guess we will need to figure it out ourselves.

[Gene]

Rivets: some time ago, 2 air started a thread about half moons just outside the rivets or creases across them. The possible reason was dirty rivet guns. I have some damaged rivets and they applied Corrosion X to them. It's a oil and won't last. Presumably corrosion could start at the half moons, so using something as a preventative seems wise. I bought a can, figuring better to use it than not. Since I have been using Griot's Paint Sealant, supposed to last a year (so far looks good) plus their Spray On wax when I wash it, that's another level of protection, though I don't know how the oil and wax interact. So far I have no corrosion.

Another similar problem is delamination of the chrome like inserts on the extrusions (trim). They have replaced that without question, once at the dealer and once at JC. It looks just like filiform, but apparently is a different process. There must be a difference between the surface of the insert and the aluminum—not clear coat on the insert, and I don't know just what it is. I think it comes in rolls and I know it glues on. The colored inserts on older trailers eventually fade and that stuff seems to be a plastic item. So each type of surface has a different dynamic.

What has all of us confused is that the filiform starts for some trailers and not others. How we protect the trailers doesn't seem to matter—some people use all sorts of products to protect the surface and some succeed, others don't. Luck? Different lots of clear coat, some of which are a bad and some of which are a good product? A dielectric reaction on some and not others? A critical combination of weather or salt? It feels like a crap shoot and we are helpless. That's not a good feeling. It's very difficult to be dispassionate about it and not get righteous instead of look for an answer. Since I don't have corrosion, I guess I don't get as worked up and I hope I don't sound preachy.

Gene

[Frody]

Yes, some times no solution is the best one in the analysis process. But another phenom that occurs with the human mind is paralysis of analysis. You folks have been working this thing over for some time and are no closer to a solution then when you started. I am not saying this to be critical, just pointing out the reality of the situation.

A good number of the owners posting on this thread strongly believe the proximate cause(s) of the corrosion is a result of either the metal being used or how it is applied. Most agree it is a manufacturer's defect.

The large majority also are convinced the problem should be solved by Airstream one way or another. If solving the corrosion problem means removing sections of metal, so be it. If it means an yearly visit to the dealer to knock down the corrosion that has flared up, then fine. If it means compensation for cosmetic disfigurement, I accept. But I interpret each one of these is a viable resolution to an issue that is not our fault and we should not be absorbing the loss for it.

Until I can read a post from a lawyer who can advise us all what our options are, frankly I am not too interested in rolling merrily along and not be more agressive.

For the record, I am not the litigeous sort, I have never sued anyone. But that doesn't mean there won't be a first time and this could very well be it. Now how about we get a legal opinion posted to lay out some options. If we end up back at the no solution is the best solution, fine, at least we tried.

[Silvertwinkie]

In the end, it's my opinion that the trailers need to be re-coated after production. Yes I know Airstream did this before moving to the Aloca pre-finished product and I am also keenly aware that the clears also failed on the older models.....however, I am of the impression that few of these finishes failed as early as 6 months off the factory floor.

Now I heard the whole long drawn out reasoning why Airstream chose the Aloca solution (EPA, etc), but IMHO, if you are going to build a product, charge a premium price, well then you just have to do it right. Clearly the Alcoa protection is not working as described. The old way was problematic, but less so than the current method at the early ages of the trailers.

So, IMHO (and mind you I'm no engineer) Airstream has to take the drastic step of doing something more substantail than simply putting the trim piece back on the center line. This will mask the issue as has been pointed out and will NOT solve the corrosion that is happening on the rivets all over the trailer, nor will it solve the issue on the rims, tail lights and door handles (but these last three may be a supplier issue). That step IMHO is to get a coating booth and start really clearing the trailers by hand themselves after all the cuts and assembly parts are completed. I strongly feel that this would in fact solve the problem to at least a level in par with a customer expectation of a finish that lasts more than 6 months.

Once mine gets bad enough I suspect I'll have a trip in my future to P&S to strip and re-coat my trailer, knowing I may get between 5-10 years if maintained properly.....but it is far more than the 8-10 months I got as I bought my unit brand spanking new, special ordered.

In line with what Frody posted....any lawyers in the house care to comment?

[M GARDENS]

Sorry as I'm sure I missed something. Who is P&S and what kind of money are we talking about for refinishing a 27-28 foot trailer?

Thanks

Bob

[StevenG]

To M Gardens, Bob.... buy a used one! perhaps at least 15 years old. You won't believe the tons of money you will save, plus you won't have the current corrosion problems. We bought a 1987 Excella, exactly the way we wanted it, and it looks pretty darn good! So don't walk away completely, think used. Shop, look, and then decide. We did it because with a 22 year old AS we're still better off than some new SOB. Good luck!
Steven

[Silvertwinkie]

Originally Posted by M GARDENS

Sorry as I'm sure I missed something. Who is P&S and what kind of money are we talking about for refinishing a 27-28 foot trailer?

Thanks

Bob

P & S Travel Trailer Service, Helena, Ohio

...a couple grand.

[Gene]

Frody, Lawyering has become very specialized. A products liability lawyer would be the one to comment, not a retired generalist like me, but I have already done so many, many posts ago. Briefly, the costs of the research and experts to prove what is happening, what the alternatives are and comparing the loss in value or the cost of fixing it, don't add up.

Many smaller claims (let's say $20,000 or less) cost so much to pursue no lawyer will take it on a contingency basis and who would pay a lawyer and the experts $10,000 or more (much more probably) to win $10,000? I think a metalurgist and an expert on surface coatings would be necessary, maybe at $300/hour or more. If they tell you there is no solution, money down the drain. And you would only win if you could show one or more the defendants were at fault, not an easy thing to do in such a case. You would have to show Airstream and Alcoa knew of a better way to do it and didn't, and if you could show it, the damages aren't that big. The defendants would show such corrosion is common and inevitable on aluminum—see all the posts about planes and boats and there's a logical argument to be made. The cost of refinishing is several grand and that isn't enough damage to outweigh the costs.

Class actions were designed to aggregate many claims so that costs would be spread amongst many, but several years back Congress made federal class actions (the only realistic forum in this kind of case) much more difficult. Thank the political party in charge at the time.

Others have looked into this in the past year and decided it wasn't worth it. I think Eric talked to a lawyer and decided it wasn't to road to go.

This may feel unfair, but it is what it is. Personally I think a large part of the population is denied the financial resources to hire a lawyer, and I don't like that. I made that point to my state bar association several years ago, but was ignored. The costs of practicing law are very, very high, so I don't have a solution to that either.

Gene

[Frody]

Good answer and thankyou. I will put this in Corrosion archives for a reminder when this issue bums me out in the future.

I guess our best alternative is to continue to make it known to RV comsumers the problems incurred. In a past post I suggested writing to RV magazines ie letters to the editor, etc.

I get several and I will send letters to both.

[Silvertwinkie]

Originally Posted by Frody

I guess our best alternative is to continue to make it known to RV comsumers the problems incurred. In a past post I suggested writing to RV magazines ie letters to the editor, etc.

I get several and I will send letters to both.

Pretty much my MO right now. Writing to the camping mag is a great idea. Airstream Life had some info on it on their blog. I can't begin to tell you how many folks have PM'd me, contacted me and said "hey man, thanks. I would have never known this was possible." One said "I wish I had found the QC and corrosion threads before I bought....."

On the other side of the coin, I was told by some folks basically love it or leave it, take my money and go someplace else if I wasn't happy. Of course none of these folks who have drunk the Kool-Aid and spouted off love it or leave it have any skin in the game, whereas folks on this thread, have anywhere between 6 mo and 7 year old trailer that they paid $40k+ that are basically being abandoned, even under warranty for what is IMHO a manufacturing defect that has to date only had from what I can tell superficial solutions. Maint issue my behind.....it's no maint issue, even by a longshot.

You better believe I'm letting as many folks know about it. Every campground where folks want to come to see the trailer, every camping show where I wind up talking shop with other campers, and yes, this thread, which still comes up in large search engines as one of the top three links when you enter problems with Airstreams.....

[m.a.]

Hi guys - I'm brand new to the site and stumbled across this thread. My Airstream bubble has burst! This is the first across-the-board negative problem I've heard of.

Do ALL the newer models have this? If I plunk down $50m or so for a 19' '08 or '09 (which is a HUGE amount of $$ for me, BTW) within minutes of leaving the salesroom floor I'm gonna have white spider-y corrosion lines creeping out from every joint???!! - with no means to stop it??

9,878 posts on this! It must be a huge problem. And it sounds like Airstream could care less.

Am I missing something here? I thought (and bought) one of the major reasons for choosing Airstream was the wonderful quality, and how long they retain their worth. I was so sure about my decision. Somebody give me something encouraging here please?!!

[xrvr]

I've asked this question before and I guess no one knows the answer---will this corrosion eventually go completely through the metal or is it just cosmetic? jim

[Mike Leary]

Wow! I sure feel for you guys, my skin is as good as it was when new because of proper clearcoating.

[Silvertwinkie]

Take a look at posts 833 and 834 of this thread (I think they are on page 59 and/or 60). The answer is that there is no common element to know if you'll get it or not. After looking at the photos, you decide if you want to punk down 2x what an SOB costs, go for it. You might be just fine. If yer feeling luck and go through with it, go to Vegas and try your luck there too!

I have no idea if it will go through the metal. The pics though in I think post 834 are bad enough where I think it eventually could, but again, I'm no engineer.

[Mike Leary]

I'm a semi- retired sprinkler contractor, years ago Rain Bird had a problem with one of their heads. I called the factory to see what the deal was; they said, "we'll replace the heads and send us a bill for the labor". They stepped up, just like Airstream should.