Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 10-14-2008, 08:12 PM   #547
Aluminut
 
Silvertwinkie's Avatar
 
2004 25' Safari
. , Illinois
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,329
I agree and somewhat disagree. If best practices are being followed by both companies, and this is just the way it is, that should be noted to the customer, in which case, I'd find it shocking anyone would by a $30k+ unit with the ability of this to happen starting as early as 6 months off the assembly line.

If either or both are not following best practices, then there should be some restitution for current owners with this problem, particularly if you are still under warranty.

From the sound of what 2Air posted, new attempts at controlling this issue is being done. How successful it will be? I suspect we'll all know once the new models that are being purchased (if they are being purchased in this economy) and folks post here.

I think the answer, at least as far as I am concerned is that the coatings need to be replaced if disturbed at the time of production, however I am keenly aware that Airstream got out of the clear coating business. Which then brings it back to the coating. If the coatings were in tact, then most of the issues we're talking about here might not be as severe. A clear coat or plastic coat over the bare alum would prevent this from happening if kept sealed...or at least that's how I see it and I welcome anyone to show me how this might be incorrect.

Any way you look at this though, it's just not good by any means.
__________________

__________________
Computers manufactured by companies such as IBM, Compaq and millions of others are by far the most popular with about 70 million machines in use worldwide. Macintosh fans note that cockroaches are far more numerous than humans and that numbers alone do not denote a higher life form. -NY Times 11/91
Silvertwinkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2008, 08:36 PM   #548
Rivet Master<br><img src="/ugala/forums/images/5rivet.gif">
 
CanoeStream's Avatar

 
2006 25' Safari FB SE
St. Cloud , Minnesota
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,279
Images: 19
Blog Entries: 3
Good input Marshall!

Having worked a fair while to understand that epoxy encapsulation of wooden boats is destined to have membrane penetration somewhere, everywhere -- I really can't believe that clearcoat won't be compromised when draped around an edge or subjected to any number of sand impacts at speed.

One can almost say that there is no such thing as a pure aluminum surface in our atmosphere. Aluminum is softer than glass but use a coke can to scrape frost off your windshield and you'll scratch the glass. That's because the surface of the can is actually a very effective abrasive, aluminum oxide. (thanks carguys) It would be interesting to learn how this certain oxidation plays into the manufacturing process and adhesion of clearcoat.

(not related, but I know so little...) SS passivation and the galvanic series still need more learning on my part:
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f4/c...tml#post221887
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f381...tml#post402523
Corrosion Control - Galvanic Table

Except I still think that Eric's issues come down to whether it's possible at all to have a permanent bond of clearcoat to aluminum. The results with new trailers would suggest no durable coating and that the expected 6, 8 or 10 year failure might be linear and already start before year one. It's time they came up with better solution or else make clear statements if that's not achievable.
__________________

__________________
Bob

5 meter Langford Nahanni

CanoeStream is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2008, 10:03 AM   #549
Rivet Master
 
Gene's Avatar
 
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Grand Junction , Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10,814
Quote:
Originally Posted by mswartz View Post
However, the atmosphere provides sufficient supply of chlorides to help initiate metal corrosion even away from sea- and road-spray.

In much of the world, there is sufficient atmospheric pollution from industrial processes and fuel-burning sources, not to mention airborne dust carried up to several thousand kilometers, to provide atmospheric chlorides for corrosion to start.

Therefore, I believe the main question (and the subject of a new thread may be) whether Alcoa and Airstream are using best available industry practices throughout their production cycle to avoid corrosion formation.

If Alcoa and Airstream ARE using best available practices, then it would be reasonable to conclude that there is nothing that they can be expected to do differently, and when we make the choice of buying these trailers we are implicitly acknowledging this.
Marshall, thanks for your well stated post. While some pollutants have been cleaned up since the 1970's, a lot haven't, and now we get stuff from a rapidly industrialized China reaching the US.

If someone were to sue Airstream or Alcoa, the defense would be they were using the best practices available. The argument would then turn to whether there were other, better practices and whether the defendants knew about them, or should have known about them, or whether they could have discovered them with reasonable effort. It's not enough to show damage. No doubt worldwide pollution would become an issue as well as more local questions—such as the amazing increase in MagChloride in recent years and how it affects everything. So far as our implicit acknowledgment that there's no better process, the plaintiff will argue prospective buyers should have been warned.

Gene
__________________
Gene is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2008, 10:14 AM   #550
Rivet Master
 
2011 25' FB Flying Cloud
Anywhere & , Everywhere
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,090
And its all academic as they say since there ain't gonna be any lawsuit and Airstream couldn't care less.
__________________
Al - K4GLU is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2008, 02:27 PM   #551
Full Timers/Diesel power.
 
Mike Leary's Avatar
 
1983 31' Airstream310
Cactus Hug , Arizona
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,540
Images: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al - K4GLU View Post
And its all academic as they say since there ain't gonna be any lawsuit and Airstream couldn't care less.
That's pretty much the whole deal: I have a friend with a less than five year
old coach that looks thirty; the word was they screwed up on prep & clear
coat. Airstream did not cop to any of it; he sold it at a massive loss.
__________________
"A settled wisdom, plus the itch to be elsewhere"
Mike Leary is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2008, 06:58 PM   #552
4 Rivet Member
 
OB Bambi's Avatar
 
Currently Looking...
San Diego , California
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 331
Images: 6
I live about 4-1/2 blocks from the Pacific Ocean. I suppose that I get some salt air here. So it is salt and oxygen. I just spent this weekend washing and doing my semi-annual waxing. Something very interesting occured to me---the filiform is pronounced on the belt-line/waist-line, however it is non-existant on the upper seam. My conclusion is that whatever Airstream is doing on the waist-line seam they aren't doing on the upper seam. (Or vise-versa). I don't know if this epiphany has been covered before, but it is very interesting. Why not above, yet it happens below. I would assume that the exposure is at least the same on the upper portions of my trailer. As for the Corrosion-X/Boeshield-9 application, I have both and prefer the Boeshield-9. I apply it with a Q-tip wherever I see or suspect filiform. It seems to give a wax type coating. I also have filiform around the taillights---like many others.

Randy Bowman
__________________
OB Bambi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2008, 11:32 PM   #553
Rivet Master
 
2002 19' Bambi
Lafayette , California
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 626
Quote:
Originally Posted by OB Bambi View Post
I live about 4-1/2 blocks from the Pacific Ocean. I suppose that I get some salt air here. ---the filiform is pronounced on the belt-line/waist-line, however it is non-existant on the upper seam. My conclusion is that whatever Airstream is doing on the waist-line seam they aren't doing on the upper seam. (Or vise-versa). Why not above, yet it happens below. I would assume that the exposure is at least the same on the upper portions of my trailer.

Randy Bowman
Somewhere in this long thread I believe I mentioned that salt near the ocean is in aerosol form as a natural consequence of wave action. That means you can consider it as essentially very fine dust which can blow inland much further than only 4 1/2 blocks. That dust settles everywhere and happily dissolves in water, whether that water is, for example, rain, wash water, or overspray from sprinklers. As to why the lower part of the seam is more affected by the resultant salt solution, the probable answer is fairly simple: gravity. The salt solution runs down off the top of the seam and happily collects on the lower part. If that solution then dries and the process repeats itself, you can end up with quite a nice deposit of salt to help oxygen eat its way between the coating and the aluminum.

It is not just that the salt helps the oxidation. Once there is a place where the filiform has lifted the coating off the aluminum, any salt solution, which seeps into the thread of filiform corrosion, dries and crystallizes (a normal process) thereby lifting the coating further off the aluminum and allowing more oxygen in. That process will repeat itself with each wet/dry cycle.
__________________
Tim A. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2008, 10:46 PM   #554
4 Rivet Member
 
OB Bambi's Avatar
 
Currently Looking...
San Diego , California
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 331
Images: 6
I have no overspray from sprinklers and absolutely NO filiform above. I can't believe that it is salt spray on the lower portions only. If I had a tiny bit of filiform on the upper parts of my trailer I could buy that idea, but there is NOTHING in the way a filiform above. Sorry to shoot down your theory. Seems like another answer is out there.
__________________
OB Bambi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2008, 11:03 PM   #555
Rivet Master
 
2002 19' Bambi
Lafayette , California
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 626
Quote:
Originally Posted by OB Bambi View Post
I have no overspray from sprinklers and absolutely NO filiform above. I can't believe that it is salt spray on the lower portions only. If I had a tiny bit of filiform on the upper parts of my trailer I could buy that idea, but there is NOTHING in the way a filiform above. Sorry to shoot down your theory. Seems like another answer is out there.
Sure there may be another answer. Despite that, the aerosol form of salt is simply dust composed of extremely small salt crystals. When you wash your trailer or it rains, that dust will dissolve in the wash water or rain and run down the sides of your trailer. It can then collect on the belt seam. Repeat that process several times and you will concentrate salt at that location. I say "concentrate," but that is not saying that there are large white crystals of the stuff there.

Then again, there may be another answer.
__________________
Tim A. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2008, 11:18 AM   #556
3 Rivet Member
 
Silvertherapy's Avatar
 
2008 27' International FB
Shoreacres , Texas
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by OB Bambi View Post
I have no overspray from sprinklers and absolutely NO filiform above. I can't believe that it is salt spray on the lower portions only. If I had a tiny bit of filiform on the upper parts of my trailer I could buy that idea, but there is NOTHING in the way a filiform above. Sorry to shoot down your theory. Seems like another answer is out there.

Bambi,

The person I talked to at Airstream told me that the belt line seam is the only place where the panels are trimmed or cut to fit during assembly, therefore it makes sense to me that the reason the filiform mostly shows up on the belt line is because it is the only place where the Alcoa coating is disturbed during airstream's manufacture, so you would think that they would do something to protect that cut edge !!!
__________________
Silvertherapy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2008, 01:40 PM   #557
Aluminut
 
Silvertwinkie's Avatar
 
2004 25' Safari
. , Illinois
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,329
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdh350 View Post
Bambi,

The person I talked to at Airstream told me that the belt line seam is the only place where the panels are trimmed or cut to fit during assembly, therefore it makes sense to me that the reason the filiform mostly shows up on the belt line is because it is the only place where the Alcoa coating is disturbed during airstream's manufacture, so you would think that they would do something to protect that cut edge !!!
Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding....bingo! Give this post an award!
__________________
Computers manufactured by companies such as IBM, Compaq and millions of others are by far the most popular with about 70 million machines in use worldwide. Macintosh fans note that cockroaches are far more numerous than humans and that numbers alone do not denote a higher life form. -NY Times 11/91
Silvertwinkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2008, 02:37 PM   #558
Rivet Master
 
ROBERTSUNRUS's Avatar

 
2005 25' Safari
Salem , Oregon
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 7,239
Images: 18
Blog Entries: 51
Happy belt moulding.

Hi, other than looks, I'm glad we ordered the Classic belt moulding trim on our Safari.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	My Picture CD 080 (Large).jpg
Views:	112
Size:	73.9 KB
ID:	70064  
__________________
Bob

2005 Safari 25-B
"Le Petit Chateau Argent"
[ Small Silver Castle ]
2000 Navigator / 2014 F-150 Eco-Boost / Equal-i-zer / P-3
YAMAHA 2400 / AIR #12144
ROBERTSUNRUS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2008, 10:16 PM   #559
4 Rivet Member
 
OB Bambi's Avatar
 
Currently Looking...
San Diego , California
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 331
Images: 6
jdh350: That makes sense to me. I also agree with you that if that is where the coating is disturbed, then they should take steps to cure the problem, especially since they know that it makes alot of us ticked off.

Thanks, Randy Bowman
__________________
OB Bambi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2008, 11:01 PM   #560
Islay - 63 O.
 
dufferin's Avatar
 
1963 26' Overlander
Montreal , -
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 581
Images: 11
Send a message via MSN to dufferin
I did post a year and a half ago saying that I wasn't that turn on with new AS. Though we bought one 6 months after my post.

I have corrosion.

but check also that : http://www.airforums.com/forums/f142/check-your-as-potential-leak-45915.html#post630414
__________________

__________________
Canadian Atlantic Unit Past President
Protect your dream from others and first yourself...

Few rolling wheels to make our planet a house.

A 1/5th of her that I own.

TAC# : QC-1

my blog

http://rvcampreview.com
dufferin is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Stainless steel corrosion Dave-O Stoves, Ovens & Microwaves 21 04-05-2014 07:30 PM
How did you get into Airstreams & Airstreaming? 83Excella Our Community 102 03-15-2009 10:48 AM
Airstreams in winter?? Curtis-79MH Airstream Motorhome Forums 6 03-27-2006 01:58 PM
Black water problems Rob Waste Systems, Tanks & Totes 3 08-31-2002 08:34 PM
Ralph Lauren Vintage Airstreams ($150,000) Andy R General Interior Topics 0 02-22-2002 01:06 AM


Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by



Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:59 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.