Corrosion problems with new Airstreams

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by moosetags

I am not following what you are saying here.

Brian

Me to either.

[Silvertwinkie]

Hey if folks in WBCCI think we're whiners here, well, frankly I think they have far bigger issues to deal with than slinging any hash our way. Bottom line, I think we have legit issues and if folks think it's whining, then so be it. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

My initial motivation on this post was to try to get some feedback and get the beast changed for the better. The company basically blew me off at nearly every turn. From there I knew there were enough of us with the issue maybe a class action would be a good idea. In the end it wasn't. So my motivation now is to simply advise and keep everyone in the loop to this issue and the QC trends and let them make their own decisions with the info in hand, offered at face value. At the very least, folks that come here and read this will be looking for these specific issues before going down the path we are all on now. If we know, they'll know and eventually many will know. What we don't pass on here, I'm happy to point out to any person coming to see my Airstream at campgrounds.

I could care less if Airstream fixes their issues at this point. If they want to run the company into the ground and tick off the Airstream community, who am I to object to this? As if they'd listen. Clearly they haven't listened to anyone in 4-5 years so far.

[Pepsi]

Zigzag needs quit his job at the Airstream factory floor. Smoking break is over. Remember Marijuana is a gateway drug.

I am not a word smith. Let me tell you how it is. These are REAL people with REAL problems, not whiners. 41 thousand people have viewed this thread. That speaks volumes. Silver has brought light to the dark side of Airstream Quality Control.

There are a lot of owners who have problems with their Airstream trailers. To ignore them or play them down will do nothing to help their bottom line. As I have said before, Airstream doesn't advertise much. We the trailer owners are the link between current owners and future owners. We, the trailer owners are towing the Airstream reputation around the world.

What we say depends on our experience with our trailer. It has been easier for me to rebuild my trailer than it will be for Airstream to rebuild my opinion of the product they are producing.

From what I know and have heard from owners, service centers and dealers the Quality control problem is getting worse, not better.

Take the message and make the changes, fix the problems and make it better.

No progress has ever been made by content men (zigzag). "all progress is born of discontent."

[wppii]

I think zigzagguzzi's point was that AS owners that are not affiliated with either AIR or WBCCI think that those of us who are affiliated and have issues are whining. He also thinks they are a bit ignorant of the issues we have. And he is not happy that they have this perception (given this ignorance).
Just my take on his comments.

[xrvr]

wppii, yes that is exactly what I meant! jim

[xrvr]

Thanks Pepsi for your personal attack. By doing that it really makes me appreciate the nice people on this forum even more. Make yourself stand out in the crowd so the rest of us can look even better!!!!! jim

[xrvr]

Pepsi, If you new anything about me then you would know that the first paragraph in your post was an insult to me and my family. I don't need this BS, I am gone. jim

[Pepsi]

Zigzag is absolutely right. This is NOT about people whining or others personal opinions. This post is about a serious problem people are experiencing with their trailer. ZigZag, I send my apologies, we have offended one another.

Silvertwinkie, installing a zinc anode may be the solution. I work on an aluminum boat, My brother lives on an aluminum boat. Without the zinc the aluminum would pit and decay very quickly. I had a friend who coated his aluminum fishing boat with antifowling paint. The paint had copper in it. He basically made a battery, which collected all the surrounding electrical charge in the water. His boat fell apart very quickly. Unanticipated consequence.

I am not a metal urgist or electrician. But, it would make sence to me to put the zink anode on or around the areas the trailer is grounded with a copper wire. I wouldn't put the anodes anywhere critical. Find a place that can be changed out and replaced easily. They may have an unintended consequence, as was the case with painting the boat.

Also, reduce static electrical build up by dangling a cable or chain, which (safely) touches ground and discharges the static build up.

If this problem is related to electrolosis (check spelling) it may be the synthetic plastics, such as carpeting or plastic tanks may be building up a charge. The problem may be presenting itself in the form of corrosion.

I will be installing a solar system soon. This is a concern for me. I am going to the local Marine store for some zinc.

Take care and happy camping.

[RangerJay]

Some very lengthy ramblings below - some might call them drivel - regardless - it is out of character for me to do this kind of thing but freezing rain outside and a cancelled meeting have left me with a “free” day to do as I please - and Filiform Is On My Mind (could this be a song?).

There have been some herculean efforts on addressing this issue by a few well known members through this and other threads (Silvertwinkie is a real hero here). Thanks for your persistence, your patience, your willingness to speak up, to listen and to share - without your efforts this discussion would not be taking place - and my knowledge on this issue would be zero (mind you - I still have a whole lot more opinion than knowledge ....)

A while back I mused if someone might be organizing a Filiform Rally - there wasn’t really any takers - in fact not much of a response at all. The thought hasn’t gone away in my mind and I still wonder if some sort of formal event based on the Filiform issue might really help move things forward in a positive way.

So - I’m going to offer a few more thoughts along that line ....

(No - I am not volunteering - actually I’ve never been to a rally at all - we tend to drive where others are not - I mean - heck - we ARE Canadian - and we DO live in the bush .... by CHOICE ..... I think that makes us pretty much hermits).

So - having appropriately distanced myself from any organizational responsibilities .....

I can’t help but think that there is a need for further action to define and address the problem - even if it is simply to learn more about Filiform as a maintenance issue (as Airstream seems to suggest it is).

If we back up a bit and do agree to initially consider the suggestion that this is a maintenance issue then aren’t there a number of organizations that could (should?) be lining up to help plan and sponsor such an event targeted towards meeting this new and emerging Airstream maintenance challenge?:

- Alcoa: it is in their best interest to ensure the best information on their product, the issue and its remedy is out there
- Airstream: it is in their best interest to ensure the issue is understood and the appropriate means for maintaining our trailers are well known, cost-effective and doable.
- WBCCI: it is in their best interest to be representing their membership - and if there is a problem they are well positioned to be able to initiate efforts to determine its scope - in fact they are probably best positioned to be able to organize a unique rally for the purpose - or at least to incorporate elements into their regular regional rallies.
- Airstream Life: as with WBCCI it is in their best interest to represent their readership - and in the spirit of “investigative journalism” to become involved in this issue.

The possible outcomes of such an event cover the spectrum of:

- finding out we’re a small club (in this case the best we might be able to do is just bite the bullet and cry on each others shoulder)
- establishing clear best practices on prevention/maintenance/repair (monstrous step forward in my view)
- demonstrating to the manufacturer the value of customer feedback, meaningful research and development, and quality control (also a big step forward - for them and for us)

On a personal note - yes I would be interested in coming out of my shell to attend something on this subject - would probably be comfortable in spending a couple days on the road to get there (max 3) - but wouldn’t be able to attend anything scheduled for 2009 - would favour 2010 - if I could not attend would also be interested in being able to obtain/purchase the proceedings.

So ..... shooting from the hip ..... some food for thought.

Don’t beat me up too badly .....

The First (and hopefully not Annual) Filiform Rally:

1) What’s important for organizers to know before any formal event:

- what are the numbers?

o who’s got the problem? - some basic research

§ year of trailer?
§ extent of the problem?
§ where did they buy?
§ where do they live?
§ where do they travel?
§ storage methods?
§ maintenance methods?

o who would be interested in attending?

§ when is best?
§ where is best?
§ how far will you travel to attend?
§ how much is a reasonable registration fee?

· i.e. beyond the basics of grounds and services bringing in the right people may or may not require an expenditure of funds:

o keynote speaker
o legal firm
o facilitator
o other?
o canvassing for basic information:

§ Airforums:

· polls
· new thread

§ Airstream Life
§ WBCCI: The Blue Beret

- what really needs to be accomplished at a rally?

o scope the magnitude of the problem
o improve the knowledge base
o define best practices for prevention and maintenance
o explore legal options
o establish levels of active interest (or not)
o determine next steps (or not)
o have some fun
o all of the above

- who might be interested in hosting?

o Alcoa?
o Airstream?
o Airstream Life?
o WBCCI?
o Airforums?
o Airforums member?
o Outside organization?

2) Possible Sessions:

Media Session: (Rally Organizers)

- the issue
- purpose of rally
- show and tell
- invitation to participate

Introductory Remarks: (Rally Organizers)

- purpose of the Rally
- results of pre-rally research
- Rally sessions

Keynote Address: (?)

- Ethics in Manufacturing?
- Quality Control?
- The Value of Customer Service?

Filiform Corrosion: (Alcoa? Airstream? University Educator? Researchers?)

- what it is
- what is its cause
- how can it be prevented
- what can be done if you have it

Show and Tell: (Club Members)

- who’s done what?
- how’s it worked?

Professional Repair:

Stripping and Painting?: (Professional Refinishers, Refurbishers)

- what’s involved
- what’s the finished repair look like
- how long will it last
- does filiform remain an issue
- cost

Other?

- ?

Home Remedies:

Corrosion X/Rejex (Corrosion X Company?)

- what it is
- its effectiveness
- how to use it

Sanding/Sealing: (Key Members?)

- what’s needed
- how to do it

Other?

- ?

Legal Options: (Legal Firm)

- Class Action Lawsuit

o what is a class action lawsuit
o what is involved
o what are the costs/benefits
o is their a case
o what about international borders (i.e. Canada, Europe)
o advice

- Individual Challenges:

o what choices are there
o what is involved
o what are the costs/benefits
o is their a case
o advice

The Alternative Trailer Response:

- Trade Show:

o the SOB Competition (direct Airstream competition)
o Camping World
o Other?

Selecting a SuperHero: Captain Filiform (Rally Organizers)

- the Poster Trailer
- the Best Costume
- the Best Theme Song (with a country and western flavour)
- Captain Filiform

Fighting the Good Fight: (Facilitated Discussion)

- What’s the Group Interest?:

o Home Maintenance?
o Advocacy?
o Public Information Campaign?
o Legal Action?
o Personal Action?
o Collective Action?

- Action Plan:

o Goals
o Next Steps
o Leadership
o Who does what?

Closing Remarks: (Captain Filiform)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I guess that about covers it - regardless whether something like a Rally happens or not I am very much in favour of knowing what the Best Practices are - and that they work. Near as I can figure - there isn't any consensus ..... yet .....

Thanks,


Jay

[Airslide]

Awesome post Jay! I clearly need a "Freezing rain" day like you. Thanks for the investment of your time. Lots good thoughts presented here.

Vin

[xrvr]

Apology accepted and offered. be cool, jim

[ROBERT CROSS]

Thanks Jay for your time and effort. Very interesting concept.


IMHO There is only one appropriate location for such an important gathering.

[Jim Clark]

Originally Posted by moosetags

I am not following what you are saying here.

Brian

I think he meant that the groups not so closely associated with WBCCI or AF were not as aware of the problem and had a perception that WBCCI and AF were whining about insignificant issues. We as members of WBCCI and AF should work hard to correct this misperception.

Of course if they had very little contact with WBCCI or AF I don’t know how they knew we are whiners and complainers. Must of met one really disgruntled member.

I see Jim is back so I assume he will expand on his post.

[jcanavera]

Originally Posted by zigzagguzzi

Interesting observation, recently I have had oportunities to talk to airstream owners who have had very little contact with the airforums or the wbcci. Most noticed that the members of these groups seem to be whiners and complainers and and these people knew even less what the problems in each group were. So are we happy with this perception? I am not! jim

Moderator hat on:

Let's understand here that if folks feel that they have been unfairly treated and have no other alternative, complaints will surface at any public forum that is available. The nature of most public forums is that those without issues will not post. Issue being defined as a question or a problem. Unfortunately the folks who make the blanket assumption that the members of this forum are complainers or whiners are obviously drive by's. Anyone who takes the time will realize that there are many, many threads that have no negative connotations. I'm not happy with the perception as stated, but on the other hand I consider this perception as a small % of the total folks who visit and stay on this forum. Much like those who might be the cronic naysayers also being a small %.

We can't sanitize everthing that is stated here, nor can we vouch for the accuracy of the statements made. We are forum for thoughts and ideas. The moderation team attempts to keep things civil and above board. I feel sorry for those who pass us by based on their perceived value of a few threads, if don't take the time to look at the overall content of this site.

Owner hat on:

I have a minor case of the corrosion on my '04 Classic. The most severe outbreak is on the trim that surrounds the compartments the hold my two batteries. Am I happy about it? No. If you followed this and other threads, Airstream initially did try to address the issues under warranty. I think it became somewhat fruitless in the accessory area, wheels and trim components, since the replacements also then regressed into the same pattern. As far as corrosion on the body segments go, the real question is how many $$ do you throw at the repair, if you can't guarantee that it won't come back? Until you come up with a real solution, any work done is stopgap. Personally short of the trim side of things, I don't want anyone pulling and replacing panels since sometimes I think the cure might be worse than the symptoms.

The Alcoa finish was the solution to a clear coat issue that came about in the 90's. Environmental regulations forced Airstream to modify the formulas used in the clear coat material used at the factory. After fruitless attempts to correct the problems, Airstream turned to Alcoa for a solution. Obviously they thought they had it until some of us discovered that once the finish is broken, by cutting or rivet holes, a path exists for the corrosion to take hold.

What's the fix? I really don't know. You can bet that pressure at this site will play a major factor in resolving the issue. Nothing can be worse for Airstream than unhappy customers. They can be a buzz kill for those doing their research.

Unfortunately for those of us with the problem, the solution will evolve in the new trailers. Much like the folks with the peeling clear coat problem in the 90's. I don't believe the fix won't be there for us. Take it for what it's worth and those who want to pursue this in a legal sense can take it to the wall. I'll probably address the trim items on my own nickel. What little corrision I have is pretty minor and as best I can tell hasn't progressed.

Jack

[ROBERT CROSS]

Thank you Jack.

I'm sure for most of us it's not about getting a permanent fix from AS for our Trailers.
As for me I'm resolved to the fact that it's up me to deal with it. You can tell from my posts the battery frames and door hinges have been delt with. The filliform is a work in progress.

All I ask for is a recognition from AS that they have a problem and they are working on improving overall QC.

[Pepsi]

Airstream has fundamental problems with quality control on the factory floor. Those are simple and need to be addressed on the management level. There are greater issues with corrosion that only the top scientists, electricians and metal urgist (check spelling) can solve.

My hope is that our message will be heard and corrective measures will be taken. How ever valuable a vintage bottle of fine wine may be, whining has no value once or ever.

Pepsi has a newly rebuilt road cabin. We still have some work to do. But we, the Mrs and I agree it is worth while. We look forward to our new Airstream experience.

With help and support here (HERE) we will be able to maintain our aluminum palace and keep our Pepsi can rolling.

Silvertwinkie, you are a forum hero and we celebrate your wisdom. you are welcome at my fire any time, happy camping...

[wppii]

Pepsi and Zig: Nice that you buried the hatchet.
JCanerva: thanks for the info, I figured it had to do with regs.

I am of the opinion that it's up to us to find the definitive solution. Thefew, the faithful, the filliformers.
We got the units that were produced when they "thought" they had a solution to an easy finish maintenance solution. I am becoming of the opinion that the real solution to an easy finish is....not! It's either elbow grease or tarnish.
So, in that vein, I'll be looking into how to strip the coating without killing the appearance (or owner). And I'll report back.

There are enough of us to know someone who knows someone who knows it or can try it. Clearcoating, anodes,...whatever.

As Walt (don't call me Wally) Kowalski (almost) said: "That's what we do, fix things."

Keep the shiny side up!

[ROBERTSUNRUS]

Hi, I was just thinking about this corrosion problem and had a thought of another possible cause. Maybe it's not the clear coat, but maybe it's just a bad alloy. You know like cheap stainless steel that rusts. Maybe this aluminum has been recycled to the point of being far from pure, instead of high grade aluminum. Maybe this aluminum is saturated with acid from cola's or alcohol from beer.

[VIKING]

I do not have the time or patience to search this thread to see if this has been brought up already, I suspect it has. The zinc anode only is effective in the presence of water, and lots of it. That is why it works on boats, oil rigs, etc. They are sometimes used in underground applications when the presence of moisture is high. otherwise, the effect is nil.

Has anyone with a newer trailer stripped the finish yet? It seems like the logical next step toward having a uniform appearance on a newer trailer. It is almost impossible to do a spot repair or touch-up on clearcoated aluminum that is not going to be noticeable. It's the nature of the beast. It seems to me that any finish on aluminum is a losing proposition. Even "back in the day" airstreams had this issue. It just took a bit longer for it to happen.

I have a '64 Safari that was stripped before I bought it and there was not a significant amount of filiform corrosion even though it had the original finish up until a year or two ago. I plan on polishing it to a high shine and enjoying it as it turns a fairly uniform dull alum color. I will always have the option of re-polishing it if I want to devote the time. I will not be putting any finish on it aside from possibly a wax job now and then.

I don't have to deal with the same issue that most of the contributers to this thread have, as my Safari is a vintage unit. It is upsetting to hear how many people are in this predicament though. I sincerely hope that there is a better solution to this problem coming soon. Until then, I offer my condolences to those suffering from NEWAIRSTREAMITIS.

Good luck to you!

Rich

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by VIKING

I have a '64 Safari that was stripped before I bought it and there was not a significant amount of filiform corrosion even though it had the original finish up until a year or two ago. I plan on polishing it to a high shine and enjoying it as it turns a fairly uniform dull alum color. I will always have the option of re-polishing it if I want to devote the time. I will not be putting any finish on it aside from possibly a wax job now and then.
Good luck to you!
Rich

It IS the alloy they are using.

Solution.....I have no problem with my AS looking like this, no filliform.


If I wanted shiny at least it could be polished.