Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 06-28-2008, 05:15 PM   #435
Aluminut
 
Silvertwinkie's Avatar
 
2004 25' Safari
. , Illinois
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,329
To me it's all about getting some solutions to the problem. I can't say I was stonewalled when I was at the factory for service, more the contrary. However, it is important to point out I had, at the time, no panels showing the signs of corrosion. Just all four rims and both cast alum tail lights, which the company addressed to my satisfaction. Little did I know that all 4 rims, both cast alum tail lights and body panels would start and in some cases, start again after the first replacements......

What I can say is that after the warranty ran out, it has been hard to get anyone at the factory to say anything intelligent or offer any real solutions, let alone an acknowledgment of the issue and any steps that are being made to correct the issue. About the only real thing I've seen is what 2Air posted about something they are putting on in certain places. Only time will tell if this can stop a 6 month old Airstream, really almost straight off the line from showing what so many of us have seen.

As I said earlier, if I had paid slightly more than an SOB, I'd not be as discontent, but if I buy a luxury vehicle, I expect a certain level of service and quality, and few issues with a unit less than 2 years old.

The price paid is high for these RVs and the quality is sadly just not there for th prices paid. I'd buy another one, but NOT a new one. Why pay top dollar for something with these kinds of issues?!?

I have no idea what kind of engineers Airstream employs, nor do I really know what QC steps they follow or how closely they follow them. What I can say is that if you read the QC threads from the avail 2004 through 2009, you see some fairly disturbing trends. Read this thread and that just adds to it. What I can also say is that there is lots of room for improvement. In this economy, these kinds of issues only add to the over issues the RV industry is facing, and more importantly, Airstream.
__________________

__________________
Computers manufactured by companies such as IBM, Compaq and millions of others are by far the most popular with about 70 million machines in use worldwide. Macintosh fans note that cockroaches are far more numerous than humans and that numbers alone do not denote a higher life form. -NY Times 11/91
Silvertwinkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2008, 12:07 AM   #436
4 Rivet Member
 
eheffa's Avatar
 
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Victoria , BC
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrawfordGene View Post
Evan, there are many ways out of a deal, but you need to consult a lawyer licenced (is that the Canadian spelling of license?) in BC for all your options. Every state and province is different. Usually if you raise hell, there's a way out before you accept delivery. Even after accepting it arguments can be made if you weren't given a chance to see everything. I can see an argument coming on mine over a gouge in the floor—you have to be on the floor to see it, and, during the walk through I neglected to roll around on the floor.

I think A/S's are better than other brands, but everything has problems, even Toyotas and Lexi.

Make sure you take your time on the walk through. I don't know if they'll try to rush you, but I expanded ours from the 2 hours they wanted to 4, and I still missed things. Write down all your questions and make sure you ask them all.

Congratulations on your good taste in ordering the same trailer as ours.

Gene

Hi Gene,

Thanks for your considered advice. I am not really wanting out of the deal. I just want to be as sure as possible that the Airstream we have picked out is sound and not a lemon, riddled with fatal flaws. If the unit is a lemon, I just hope I can recognize it and have the fortitude to resist the momentum of the occasion. I didn't mean to be hyperbolic in my previous posts, but after reading the various horror stories of folks like GunnyUSMC and others dealing with recurrent water leaks, I have felt a little gun-shy and been quite tempted to pull the plug.

it is probably important to recognize that others do receive good units & good service that allows them to enjoy their A/S's as they had hoped. For all I know this may well be the majority of buyers; but, we have no good statistics or data on this it would seem.

At this point we intend to travel to Eugene to pick up the trailer as planned but we will only take possession if it passes our slow & careful inspection. (The trailer has been on the Dealer's lot for some time now in monsoon conditions so if it hasn't leaked with that it probably won't for a while...I hope) Much of the information I have read here on this board & this thread should allow us a reasonably informed inspection.

Thanks.

-evan
__________________

__________________
eheffa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2008, 07:17 AM   #437
CLOUDSPLITTER Phone home
 
ROBERT CROSS's Avatar

 
2003 25' Classic
Zanadude Nebula , WNY
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 10,802
Images: 1
Thumbs up


It might help to let the dealer know, in a very subtle way of-course, that you have 27828 Airstream Friends stand'n behind you.
Just mention the Forums about a dozen times during the check-out, carry a clip-board, and excuse yourself several times to make a cell call.

If you can't dazzle em' brilliance, baffle em' with B.S.
__________________
"What you do speaks so loudly, no one can hear what you say"
M. Levy




So when is this..."old enough to know better" supposed to kick in?
ROBERT CROSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2008, 08:42 AM   #438
Rivet Master
 
Ahab's Avatar

 
2008 22' Safari
Oracle , Arizona
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie View Post
To me it's all about getting some solutions to t
I have no idea what kind of engineers Airstream employs, nor do I really know what QC steps they follow or how closely they follow them. What I can say is that if you read the QC threads from the avail 2004 through 2009, you see some fairly disturbing trends. Read this thread and that just adds to it. What I can also say is that there is lots of room for improvement. In this economy, these kinds of issues only add to the over issues the RV industry is facing, and more importantly, Airstream.
As a retired Quality Engineer I can reasonably state AS does not have a QC program,period. We have been fortunate to have purchased a unit relatively free of major defects and still love ours.
__________________
Ahab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2008, 09:44 AM   #439
1 Rivet Member
 
2005 25' Safari
Oregon City , Oregon
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 14
Frody

We have a new Safari. There were problems with corrosion the day we picked the unit up from the dealer. The tail light surrounds had spots, one door hinge had a hairline crack with corrosion and spots at mid level where the metal bends on the four corners.

The understructure also had a very poor paint job on it and surface rust was already showing. The dealer took care of the surface rust before we took possession.

After our first trip, we took the unit to the dealer. A.S. had the tail light surrounds polished and the hinge was replaced.

The spots around the mid seam were negotiated. A.S. gave me a mid seam trim band and I will pay for installation. This is a bandage type solution I am not yet comfortable with. That is like painting over wood rot.

A.S. also sent sample products of ACF-50 which you can find on the web. The product does not prevent corrosion but is suppose to neutralize corrosion. We will see.

Another product that will take the corrosion down to bare metal is Mothers Aluminum Polish at auto parts stores. But this also takes the clear coat off, if used, one needs to protect the bare metal. Finger nail polish has been suggested but I will probably use an acrylic enamel.

It took about 90 minutes to clean up the corrosion. I used 00 steel wool to knock the corrosion down to bare metal, then applied ACF 50 to the spots. There is a slight residue and discoloration but not blantant.

The other step I may employ (but have not yet) will be to spot spray a clear coat of acrylic enamel. I am waiting to see if ACF 50 works and if any new corrosion flares up. Once the clear coat is applied I figure I am back to ground zero but will probably still have discolored spots.

Next, once I see if the corrosion is neutralized and no new corrosion forms, I will then have the trim band installed over the mid seams.

My position is A.S. should be taking care of this problem. It is an " impso facto case". The facts speak for themselves. I don't care what the warranty says, or lame AS excuses, the bottom line it is their job, not ours to produce a unit that can withstand the elements and road hazards. My unit had no more then 300 miles of road travel on it when I took possession. No way under any circumstances can it be justified it is not a manufacturer's defect of one sort or another. AS should be kissing my red, white and blue American butt to get this right for me.

If my unit was three years old exposed to adverse conditions, way different set of circumstances. But brand new, sorry we consumers just ain't stupid enough to not know better. What is very stupid is AS not protecting their number one asset, their reputation. Fools! They are trying to avoid what could be a simple fix and wasting away gobs of marketing and advertising dollars. AS will lose sales and their rep will be in the toilet. It will take them a ton of money to get back to where they once were. Talk about the adversre affect of corrosion. Bit of irony here.

If AS thinks they are immune from the adversity, guess again. One only needs to look at other American icons like Schwinn and Coleman to realize the international market is a very fragile jungle.


AS needs to understand who their customer is. We are people who want quality and are willing and able to pay for it. We are also loyal to an extent. AS doesn't deliver, we are also smart enough to move on. Way too many other units out there that consumers have the option to buy. If another unit is less money, and doesn't corrode, that is pretty much a no brainer for the average thinking person.

Will I go after A.S. any more? Life is short and then you die. I have other things I would rather spend my time enjoying then mess with them.

Would I buy another A.S.? No.
Would I recommend to others to buy an AS? What for?

Game over, AS loses!
__________________
Frody is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2008, 11:11 AM   #440
Aluminut
 
Silvertwinkie's Avatar
 
2004 25' Safari
. , Illinois
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,329
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahab View Post
As a retired Quality Engineer I can reasonably state AS does not have a QC program,period. We have been fortunate to have purchased a unit relatively free of major defects and still love ours.
Well, I know they have something in place, though I'd agree, it might not appear like much, and we have clearly seen the outcome of whatever is in place .

Attached is an image of what I captured during one of the factory tours. It's photos like these where I am fairly certain, are the root cause of cameras not being allowed in on the production floor....
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	0.jpg
Views:	167
Size:	272.7 KB
ID:	62968  
__________________
Computers manufactured by companies such as IBM, Compaq and millions of others are by far the most popular with about 70 million machines in use worldwide. Macintosh fans note that cockroaches are far more numerous than humans and that numbers alone do not denote a higher life form. -NY Times 11/91
Silvertwinkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2008, 12:37 PM   #441
Rivet Master
 
TIMEMACHINE's Avatar
 
2006 25' Safari FB SE
Huntington Beach , California
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,293
Images: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frody View Post
We have a new Safari. There were problems with corrosion the day we picked the unit up from the dealer. The tail light surrounds had spots, one door hinge had a hairline crack with corrosion and spots at mid level where the metal bends on the four corners.

The understructure also had a very poor paint job on it and surface rust was already showing. The dealer took care of the surface rust before we took possession.

After our first trip, we took the unit to the dealer. A.S. had the tail light surrounds polished and the hinge was replaced.

The spots around the mid seam were negotiated. A.S. gave me a mid seam trim band and I will pay for installation. This is a bandage type solution I am not yet comfortable with. That is like painting over wood rot.

A.S. also sent sample products of ACF-50 which you can find on the web. The product does not prevent corrosion but is suppose to neutralize corrosion. We will see.

Another product that will take the corrosion down to bare metal is Mothers Aluminum Polish at auto parts stores. But this also takes the clear coat off, if used, one needs to protect the bare metal. Finger nail polish has been suggested but I will probably use an acrylic enamel.

It took about 90 minutes to clean up the corrosion. I used 00 steel wool to knock the corrosion down to bare metal, then applied ACF 50 to the spots. There is a slight residue and discoloration but not blantant.

The other step I may employ (but have not yet) will be to spot spray a clear coat of acrylic enamel. I am waiting to see if ACF 50 works and if any new corrosion flares up. Once the clear coat is applied I figure I am back to ground zero but will probably still have discolored spots.

Next, once I see if the corrosion is neutralized and no new corrosion forms, I will then have the trim band installed over the mid seams.

My position is A.S. should be taking care of this problem. It is an " impso facto case". The facts speak for themselves. I don't care what the warranty says, or lame AS excuses, the bottom line it is their job, not ours to produce a unit that can withstand the elements and road hazards. My unit had no more then 300 miles of road travel on it when I took possession. No way under any circumstances can it be justified it is not a manufacturer's defect of one sort or another. AS should be kissing my red, white and blue American butt to get this right for me.

If my unit was three years old exposed to adverse conditions, way different set of circumstances. But brand new, sorry we consumers just ain't stupid enough to not know better. What is very stupid is AS not protecting their number one asset, their reputation. Fools! They are trying to avoid what could be a simple fix and wasting away gobs of marketing and advertising dollars. AS will lose sales and their rep will be in the toilet. It will take them a ton of money to get back to where they once were. Talk about the adversre affect of corrosion. Bit of irony here.

If AS thinks they are immune from the adversity, guess again. One only needs to look at other American icons like Schwinn and Coleman to realize the international market is a very fragile jungle.


AS needs to understand who their customer is. We are people who want quality and are willing and able to pay for it. We are also loyal to an extent. AS doesn't deliver, we are also smart enough to move on. Way too many other units out there that consumers have the option to buy. If another unit is less money, and doesn't corrode, that is pretty much a no brainer for the average thinking person.

Will I go after A.S. any more? Life is short and then you die. I have other things I would rather spend my time enjoying then mess with them.

Would I buy another A.S.? No.
Would I recommend to others to buy an AS? What for?

Game over, AS loses!
Thanks for the very informative post. You have taken the step to do something about the corrosion even though Airstream should have taken that step for you.

Of course I agree completely with your position in regard to Airstream's responsibility to provide us with a product that will perform up to the standards of the "marketed reputation". There is without doubt an implied warranty that the trailer will last a reasonable period of time without corrosion, no matter what the warranty states. There is a mountain of literature provided by Airstream and it's dealer organization that clearly implies that the construction of the Airstream trailer is superior and that a high percentage of Airstreams built since 1936 are still road worthy.

Yes, different year models in the past have had coating problems, but the present aluminum exteriors with corrosion do not have the same issues and so far only "covering the problem" has been the Airstream corporate solution. Not acceptable to any person with common sense, let alone a loyal customer who has spent $40,000 to $90,000 for a trailer.

Wake up Airstream.
__________________
Travel is in my blood, adventure is my passport, aluminum is my favorite construction medium, and therefore, an Airstream was my destiny.
TIMEMACHINE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2008, 12:40 PM   #442
Rivet Master
 
Gene's Avatar
 
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Grand Junction , Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10,814
Up against the machine

The checklist reproduced in #440 is evidence of some sort of QC program, but it's not evidence of an effective one.

Ahab's post brings to my mind the reason some people have relatively few problems and others have a lot. If there is not an effective QC program, quality is reliant on certain employees who want to produce quality trailers—maybe they are concentrated on certain production lines or areas, maybe they are off certain days, maybe, maybe, maybe. Are certain models more prone to defects than others? Is QC concentrated on the more expensive trim lines? Is it the Friday problem? This all sounds like American car manufacturers before they caught on to what the Japanese were doing to them on quality—hit and miss QC ended up giving them a terrible reputation. They still haven't recovered their reputations and they still are behind the Japanese.

Without an objective analysis of what's going on, we're sort of guessing about the causes of the problem. It seems fairly obvious it starts at the top—the empty suits issue—knowing that takes absolutely no intelligence or analysis. But what happens as the cost cutting goes through the system? Do employees care less because the empty suits care less? What actually occurs on the production line? Nobody has found the old timer whistleblower employee who will spill his or her guts about what's going on. Maybe no one has tried to find the whistleblower. It certainly isn't Don the tour guy. And there is little energy for a class action suit.

So each of us is on our own with the exception of information gathered here. We are also in this bind: no one wants the company to fail for several reasons—pride in our trailers, or more practically, getting parts will be difficult and resale value might suffer. But I feel a little bit of pleasure when someone says they won't buy one because maybe JC will get the message.

If I had serious problems and lived near the factory, I'd think about finding the whistleblower. I'm not moving to Ohio or Indiana, so if I had serious problems, what would I do? I'd have to see if I needed allies or I could do it myself. Fortunately I don't have to hire a lawyer, but others should if they believe the cost of a lawyer is worth it (I know lawyers cost a lot, and I know why, and I have tried to get my state bar ass'n to seriously look at that, without success, but I also know sometimes you need a lawyer to get it done). People with the same problem(s) can form a group, start a website, issue press releases. One person can have a lawyer send a letter to the company president. A group can have several lawyers send letters and keep everyone in contact with one another. The trick is not only knowing the law, but often more importantly, knowing how to get it done. It might be useful if there's any sort of safety issue to contact either the National Highway Traffic Safety Commission or the Consumer Product Safety Commission and encouraging others to do so (they have different subject matter jurisdiction—one would deal with refrigerators, the other with tires, for example). I imagine substantial corrosion could be proven to be a safety and not just a cosmetic problem, but I am not a scientist. I think an important part of any attempt to change the company attitude is getting some publicity—2air said as much a gazillion posts ago.

The economics of the problem always is part of possible solutions. Does a customer have time to pursue it? Do they have the money to pay a lawyer? What is the damage and how much would it cost to repair it? What is my chance of winning in litigation and what will it cost?

Bad companies count on individuals being too weak economically to win. They know an occasional consumer can beat them (especially if the customer doesn't care what it costs them), or they quietly settle, but most people give up. Class action suits were designed to level the playing field, but lobbyists succeeded in convincing Congress to make it hard to pursue these suits. The agencies that are supposed to protect consumers have also been weakened so as to be almost ineffectual. We are on our own for the most part.

Gene
__________________
Gene is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2008, 01:48 PM   #443
_
 
. , .
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,812
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frody View Post
....Game over, AS loses!
hey frody,

YOUR entire post is very much how MANY folks feel frody, so good job!

i've been playing with many of the corrosion salves and the boeshield t9 seems to hold up best to washing and weather....

i'm also using a new goop that is VERY tenacious and will post on it soon.

but these things do leave a visible surface film on the shiny stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TIMEMACHINE View Post
...Yes, different year models in the past have had coating problems, but the present...
hi time...

going back 29 years of a/s ownership and recalling many of hte folks and streams i've encountered...

the PEELING problem with the variety of clear PLASTI KOTE finishes was MUCH WORSE and WIDESPREAD...

and a/s has NEVER had an effective approach to dealing with "after purchase" finish issues,

but they (a/s) were somewhat able to rely on US not connecting with EACH OTHER on these issues...

the difference NOW, is absolutely our ability to connect with each other...

exchange views, share EVIDENCE, like pix of the problem and the LACK corporate response...

and the buyer perspective/expectations have changed too with the boomer generation and beyond.

not only does a/s/-thor LACK an effect method to deal with filiform...

they don't know have a clue yet how to deal with our 'new connectivity' and it's AWESOME POWER....

provided PRIMARILY by these forums...

this is a SPECIAL place and vehicle (not the a/s) we have here....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie View Post
...Attached is an image of what I captured during one of the factory tours. It's photos like these where I am fairly certain, are the root cause of cameras not being allowed in on the production floor....
well it's good to know i can share the guilty feelings on this one twink...

because i took a dozen or so pix of these same 'checklists' inside my unit during production....

a/s doesn't need to worry about corporate spies or industry espionage...

it's the enthusiastic customers packing pixels that are a threat!

reports of the current clearcoat issues go back as far as 2002,

and anyone who has seen how they build these shells realizes it is NOT an IF but WHEN issue.

all ne1 needs to do is imagine a house or car constructed (cut/drilled/riveted/screwed/n hammered) from PRE FINISHED skin,

with NO painting or coating AFTER assembly of the structure...

the skin panels are coated BEFORE assembly and except for alcoa covering EACH sheet with a protective poly layer...

a/s has NO special, or specific steps to protect the skin during construction...

q/c is about preforming UP or DOWN to the PRE DETERMINED PARAMETERS for the final product...

and the factory DOES exactly that...

there are many good posts in this thread that could be culled for a tight review of the problem and stop gaps....

in the entire universe of the forum archives i've found ONLY ONE company/employee response....

noted back in post #341, http://www.airforums.com/forums/543768-post341.html , but worth repeating...

Quote:
Originally Posted by lynn
Excuse me if I have missed something but,what areas of your trailer are peeling? What year is your trailer? Airstream built a complete trailer shell and it is sitting at Oasis in Tucson Arizona. The trailer shell has been sitting there since 1999 with no signs of coating problems. Just curious.
although i'm sure many in j/c are reading here...

now about that problem FREE shell in the desert...

cheer
2air'
__________________
all of the true things that i am about to tell you are shameless lies. l.b.j.

we are here on earth to fart around. don't let anybody tell you any different. k.v.
2airishuman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2008, 02:57 PM   #444
1 Rivet Member
 
2005 25' Safari
Oregon City , Oregon
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 14
"Without an objective analysis of what's going on, we're sort of guessing about the causes of the problem. "

Baloney! Talk about paralysis of analysis! You don't need to determine no stinkin cause. Just focus on the obvious defects. New means NEW and without defects. I don't give a rusty poop what caused it.

Wasting time trying to ID the cause just fuels A.S. lame position of not owning the problem. The more time wasted on determining the cause, the more time the process takes. And that my friends is how they wear you out, with the process. Eventually you grow weary and give up.
__________________
Frody is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2008, 04:43 PM   #445
Rivet Master
 
Gene's Avatar
 
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Grand Junction , Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10,814
The importance of knowing everything you can and of determining where the specific problem occurs is that when you are challenging the company, you are in a better position to convince them to take care of the problem. If you simply say "you are at fault" they will ignore you. If you can show them why and how they are at fault, you are in a better position to win. Of course they want to wear you out. You have to be stronger and smarter. When they come up with some excuse, the more you know, the more likely you can answer it and wear them down. I know it's frustrating figuring it out for them, but when you enter into a dispute, it's better to know more than your adversary and then to let them know it without anger. Let them save face, thank them for listening, threaten with subtleness—it's theater.

Gene
__________________
Gene is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2008, 08:33 AM   #446
1 Rivet Member
 
2005 25' Safari
Oregon City , Oregon
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 14
Cause

The importance of knowing everything you can and of determining where the specific problem occurs is that when you are challenging the company, you are in a better position to convince them to take care of the problem. If you simply say "you are at fault" they will will ignore you.

Gene:
With all due respect, how is it you do not think you are not being ignored now. I believe the original post is April 2006. Two years later I don't see a lot of progress. Your modus operandi has merit in some situations providing their is a neutral third party that will make an objective decision and then enforce it. Some call that person a judge. Without that I am afraid you might as well be talkng to the wall.

What I found AS will do is listen, validate your concerns, respond in a reasonble compromising way, but offer no admission of liability.

Also know AS management read these forums and are keenly aware of this issue.

In conclusion I do not agree with you about "more information makes you smarter and stronger" and then puts you in a better position. What it does do is muddy the water and gives the opponent more to argue. One issue they can not discount, argue or defend is the fact new means new and with out defects. But you go ahead and drag a dead horse, I am going golfing.
__________________
Frody is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2008, 03:09 PM   #447
Rivet Master
 
TIMEMACHINE's Avatar
 
2006 25' Safari FB SE
Huntington Beach , California
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,293
Images: 2
It will all work out

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frody View Post
The importance of knowing everything you can and of determining where the specific problem occurs is that when you are challenging the company, you are in a better position to convince them to take care of the problem. If you simply say "you are at fault" they will will ignore you.

Gene:
With all due respect, how is it you do not think you are not being ignored now. I believe the original post is April 2006. Two years later I don't see a lot of progress. Your modus operandi has merit in some situations providing their is a neutral third party that will make an objective decision and then enforce it. Some call that person a judge. Without that I am afraid you might as well be talkng to the wall.

What I found AS will do is listen, validate your concerns, respond in a reasonble compromising way, but offer no admission of liability.

Also know AS management read these forums and are keenly aware of this issue.

In conclusion I do not agree with you about "more information makes you smarter and stronger" and then puts you in a better position. What it does do is muddy the water and gives the opponent more to argue. One issue they can not discount, argue or defend is the fact new means new and with out defects. But you go ahead and drag a dead horse, I am going golfing.
Frody,

Remind me not to have you present when I am explaining to my kids why an education is important. Just kidding....I understand your point.

All that aside, we do have a common interest here, right?

Airstream isn't ignoring our issues, they are not taking responsibility nor are they solving the problem. All written communication I have had with Airstream is establishing facts for further consideration by either Airstream or third parties. A written denial of warranty claims by the manufacturer goes a long way if and when a third party is asked to review the situation. Although you may disagree, including specific facts of the claim including potential cause does help substaniate the claim as to responsibility of the manufacturer, especially when the manufacturer is stating the problem is a maintenance issue as opposed to a manufacturing defect.

So I do believe it appears we are talking to a wall, but if properly documented, not just talk, but written communication followed by a written response, will eventually lead to an appropriate conclusion.

As for cause, all indications point toward a breach in the aluminum panel, specifically in the Alcoa factory-applied coating, during assembly at Jackson Center without proper sealing prior to delivery to the customer. I would say the water is pretty clear and any common man could see who did it and who is responsible for the resulting corrosion on late model Airstreams. It is also apparent that no matter what steps an owner takes to keep the corrosion from developing, it is a lost cause since the causal defect was in place when it left the factory.

I am no lawyer, and don't pretend to know all of the answers, but I will take smart over stupid anytime, and it doesn't take a genius to put this all together thanks to all the information we share on the forum and other venues.

I am ready for a round of golf too!
__________________
Travel is in my blood, adventure is my passport, aluminum is my favorite construction medium, and therefore, an Airstream was my destiny.
TIMEMACHINE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2008, 04:50 PM   #448
Aluminut
 
Silvertwinkie's Avatar
 
2004 25' Safari
. , Illinois
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,329
Ok, off topic. This thread has had about 25,500 hits in 27 months. Thats 944 folks that have seen, maybe read or participated in this thread.

To me, even if 100 folks looked at this thread every month pre or post purchase, that's 100 folks that had a moment of pause to stop and think about the issues discussed. That is a significant enough number in my book, if it were me running things to take a serious look at how these things are being built. If you add all the QC tracking threads, those per month views get seriously high...lots of foot traffic, lots of info, not a lot of substance toward solutions= not a pretty picture in my book...but hey, that's just my .02 and opinion as the creator of this thread and the last 6 model year QC threads. Having owned a 2003 and the current 2004 (both dismal in overall quality), what do I know anyway.

PS- I also found it interesting that Airstream Life also has some of this info in their blog section, which I'm sure also generated some additional foot traffic toward this topic.
__________________

__________________
Computers manufactured by companies such as IBM, Compaq and millions of others are by far the most popular with about 70 million machines in use worldwide. Macintosh fans note that cockroaches are far more numerous than humans and that numbers alone do not denote a higher life form. -NY Times 11/91
Silvertwinkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Stainless steel corrosion Dave-O Stoves, Ovens & Microwaves 21 04-05-2014 07:30 PM
How did you get into Airstreams & Airstreaming? 83Excella Our Community 102 03-15-2009 10:48 AM
Airstreams in winter?? Curtis-79MH Airstream Motorhome Forums 6 03-27-2006 01:58 PM
Black water problems Rob Waste Systems, Tanks & Totes 3 08-31-2002 08:34 PM
Ralph Lauren Vintage Airstreams ($150,000) Andy R General Interior Topics 0 02-22-2002 01:06 AM


Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by



Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:05 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.