Corrosion problems with new Airstreams

[Sky]

Nicely documented Mike, welcome to the forums. Your pictures make me sick, I can't imagine how you must feel. Hopefully in the near future a critical mass will be reached triggering a class action suit. There are way too many frivolous law suits these days, and lawyers aren't some of my favorite people but , I wouldn't put this in that category. Your analogy is right on, and not being a lawyer, I don't understand why Airstream can get away with defects that an automobile maker cannot. For now, grin and bear it

[MikeDBF]

I received a private message that some folks were having a hard time viewing the photos I posted off-site, so I've uploaded them here, along with the text that accompanied them.

What's this? It's the aluminum skin of my Airstream Travel Trailer, showing signs of a production defect just a few months after I took delivery.

This defect, filiform corrosion, is a process that afflicts aluminum that has suffered a breach in the protective Clear Coat coating applied by Alcoa, the supplier of the lightweight metal used by Airstream to skin its trailers.

It often shows up around rivet heads and the edges of aluminum panels.

Let's see where else my Airstream is starting to look a little rough around the edges.

It doesn't just affect the trailer's skin; this is the grab handle outside the door. Notice how it's covered with creeping crud.

Nice.

Moving around to the back of the trailer, let's take a look at the picture window that frames the dinette area.

In this close-up there appears to be rust -- the conventional, red kind -- around one of the rivets.

This does not make me happy.

In this shot you can see more of the corrosion, as well as a bit of the discoloration of the caulking between the window and the frame -- some of which is already pulling away from the metal.

Airstream says that this isn't covered under its warranty, which is astonishing, when you consider that they're washing their hands of the distinguishing characteristic that defines the product.

Imagine, if you will, that automakers said that any defect in the paint or body wasn't their problem, but that of the paint supplier, or the mill that made the steel used in the body panels.

There's talk on some of the Airstream forums about a class-action lawsuit, which is a symptom of how widespread the defect is -- and how widespread is the unhappiness of Airstream owners.

Here's the deal: We really like the Airstream; it's well designed, stylish and fun to use. Traveling with Bogie, having a home away from home, is a blast.

But this is more than a little ding or a minor glitch in the manufacturing process.

Quite frankly, the Airstream is starting to look a lot like a fading Hollywood starlet: from a distance, she's the stuff dreams are made of, but when you get too close, the rot, the decay becomes obvious, and the bloom is seriously off the rose.

I am informed that Airstream has taken a hard line when it comes to complaints about the defective aluminum skins of its trailers; we'll see if they're truly as unwilling to stand by their product as the critics say.

This is less than six months since I took possession of the Silver Twinkie, and that's just not acceptable.

[Silvertwinkie]

I truly feel your pain Mike. A 2008 no less and looks like that. It's just so unbelievable....there are times I feel like at any time I could wake up and this would all be just a bad dream...then I see things like this, on even far, far younger units than mine, and realize it's the reality many of us are facing, some worse than others. I hope the factory takes care of you....they did take care of me, but I hadn't noticed it on any body panels at the time. If the factory does walk from the warranty claim, it would be good to post that here with as many details as possible. I have not exp this alleged new warranty stance myself, but now I am way out of warranty to see what the response would be today. Others here have posted they have been declined warranty work, but again, I have not seen or witnessed this, just read about on this forum somewhere.

On the roadside there should be a sticker or maybe still a small square piece of stamped metal indicating the month and year of production...can you share with us the month and year your unit was produced as a 2008 model?

[ROBERT CROSS]

I give up!!
What does it take to open the little red x's that I see?

[Darrell Root]

Hi Mike, saw you're post sorry about the problems with corrosion,I too have a 28' CCD, few filiform on the trailer,but tail lights and grab handle have a healthy filiform growth--minimal on wheels. I called a/s customer service and was told they now sell acf-50 which would arrest the filiform (questionable in my mind). Also they would email instructions on cleaning and refinishing the handle and tail lights (which are about $250-$300 each). a/s never emailed those instrucs.---anyone out there have them? Darrell

[2airishuman]

Originally Posted by MikeDBF

... have a serious corrosion problem...

hi mike welcome to the forums...

really only your first pic shows filiform corrosion.

the others are basic surface corrosion/creep, which is different.

the grab handle looks nasty and so do the window frames.

but neither of those parts are alcoa-clearcoated skin.

the window framing bits get a factory applied spray of plasti-kote like material.

this stuff is VERY easy to remove, cleaning with a solvent or vigorus hand rubbing will do it.

once an area of naked aluminum is exposed, an entire window frame can frost over with corrosion.

same with the grab handle.

so how are the wheels?

my guess is that your unit was washed/cleaned and then exposed to regular salting.

that's not an excuse just a distinction from the one spot of filiform around that rivet in pix 1.

for the window frames, they need to be buffed/polished down to fresh metal...

then either RE-plasti-koted or sealed with a poly sealant or other aluminum metal treatment.

mask off the skin nearby to do this work to avoid damaging the alcoa coated skin.

the same approach applies to the grab handle.

clearly a/s has dropped the ball on this issue and supporting owners...

as time' notes the claims/warranty department...

has made a HUGE blunder,

NOT supporting reasonable solutions 2 this issue,

and no doubt the bosses above the warranty/claims department are in on this too...

they keep a list of 10 or so issues posted on the wall that they 'red flag' meaning NO WARRANTY coverage...

corrosion, mold, wheel/hub separation, interior damage from leaks are a few things on "THE LIST"...

it is embarrassing to own this product and see how they are NOW treating loyal owners and paying customers.

cheers
2air'

[MikeDBF]

Thanks to the fine folks at Tech Support, the photos of my scabby 2008 trailer are again viewable -- check 'em out.

[Sky]

Hey Mike. I notice a lot of water marks in your photos. I'm on a well system here, and I need to wipe with chamois to eliminate them. Is there a chance there could be some salts in your wash water? Probably not, but just thought I would throw it out there.

[MikeDBF]

Sky, those are from condensation -- morning dew and such -- running down the sides. When we washed -- using hard water, but not the house's softened water -- we made sure to dry the trailer with microfiber towels.

Thanks for the educated guess; I can use all the help I can get.

Originally Posted by Sky

Hey Mike. I notice a lot of water marks in your photos. I'm on a well system here, and I need to wipe with chamois to eliminate them. Is there a chance there could be some salts in your wash water? Probably not, but just thought I would throw it out there.

[2airishuman]

Originally Posted by MikeDBF

...When we washed -- using hard water, but not the house's softened water....

so does this mean...

you are using SOFTENED water for washing?

most home application water softening is salt based and VERY corrosive...

cheers
2air'

[craftsman]

Why are some trailers showing corrosion and not others? I have some on my wheels but none that I can detect on the body panels ,hinges, door pull etc.

[MikeDBF]

No, no, no!

We are NOT using softened water to wash; we're using unsoftened water, from an outside faucet that isn't plumbed into the treated water loop.

The only thing about the untreated water is that it's so darn hard that rocks practically come out of the faucet. That's why a water softener is necessary in my neck of the woods.

Originally Posted by 2airishuman

so does this mean...

you are using SOFTENED water for washing?

most home application water softening is salt based and VERY corrosive...

cheers
2air'

[CanoeStream]

Mike, how much exposure to ocean camping are you getting? I've had a lot of Hawaii time and know the salt haze that blows hundreds of yards ashore in strong winds. Had a lot of aluminum on backpacking equipment corrode and never was the same. How far from the ocean are you?

[Sky]

Originally Posted by craftsman

Why are some trailers showing corrosion and not others? I have some on my wheels but none that I can detect on the body panels ,hinges, door pull etc.

Good question craftsman. I guess that's one of the things we are trying to figure out here. I was wondering the same thing. Why do others have it, but not me? I only have it on the wheels. Well, three days ago I joined the club.... Yipeeeeee. I found filiform growing out from the pointed end of a curbside teardrop running light. Its not very big yet, but its there.

I immediately went inside and made a gin martini up with a couple of olives. It helped a little, but only a little. Oh no, I'm one of THEM now.

[MikeDBF]

The trailer is stored about four miles inland. We haven't been doing any ocean camping, so the only exposure it's gotten -- closer to the Pacific than where it's stored -- is when we've spent a little time motoring on the coastal highway on our way to inland destinations.

Originally Posted by CanoeStream

Mike, how much exposure to ocean camping are you getting? I've had a lot of Hawaii time and know the salt haze that blows hundreds of yards ashore in strong winds. Had a lot of aluminum on backpacking equipment corrode and never was the same. How far from the ocean are you?

[Gene]

I'm under the impression that ocean salt spray can be blown miles, maybe many miles inland. Do people who live near the Great Salt Lake have more problems than people further away? All over states where it snows or there are ice storms, various salts are placed on the roads, later dry and imbed in the pavement and berms and thus turn to dust and when it rains, a solution on the road. Trailers made in Ohio are shipped year 'round over such highways. Chlorine in drinking water may combine with sodium ions in the water to make NaCl, common table salt. Sodium is a common element and always ready to combine with others. Perhaps a little exposure doesn't do anything, but a lot does. It's impossible to know precisely how much exposure any one trailer has gotten, though people near salt water or where salt is put on the roads may have more incidents of corrosion. It's possible reasonable useful data can be found. There are plenty of other corrosive chemicals in the environment to be considered too.

One would expect exposure to corrosive salts and other chemicals to be different for every trailer and each part. Usually vehicles are cleaner on the streetside than the curbside where they are mainly on 2 lane roads—the water splashed by opposing vehicles washes off dirt, but maybe not salt. Which side of trailers has more corrosion? If there is enough data collected, some idea of where in the country the problem is worst would be helpful. This would include where the trailer has been and when—that includes the trip from the factory. Checking weather records would help and knowing the chemicals on the roads, but also in the air at various locations. To come up with useful data, a lot of specific information needs to be collected.

Subjecting the panels Airstream uses and the various other metal parts to tests with all types of salts and other chemicals in the air could tell a lot. Then test with various products to protect the metals.

This type of data would be very useful for owners trying to find a way to protect their trailers and to the company to prevent warranty claims and lawsuits. I expect the company is doing such tests but doesn't like to talk about it.

We have no corrosion except a little on the "chrome" strip around the base of the aluminum skin before we left for the Pacific coast a month ago. I used Griot's paint sealer on the trailer before we left—it was pretty easy to apply. I've been too busy to inspect it since or to do the most important thing, wash it. It did get naturally washed in Oregon after we headed east from the coast and it rained this morning, so I'm hoping it wasn't acid rain.

I'm not trying to discourage anyone. It's a lot of work and some money to collect data, do testing, and analyze it objectively. The testing is expensive unless you can find a university lab for free or there's a owner qualified to do it. Collecting data and analyzing is time consuming but can (initially) be done by owners. This data collection and analysis is not very sexy to do, but it has to be done at some time.

Gene

[SteSpot]

I am of the opinion that the reported tendency by Airstream to blame salt for corrosion on new trailers is a way of shifting the blame to customers and refusing to accept the responsibility to fix it. How can anyone prove that salt did or did not cause the corrosion?

Most of the roads in the State of California never have any salt on them because it doesn't snow except in the mountains and when it does snow most people are generally not camping in their Airstreams.

As far as the salt blowing inland---again that would be a hard one to prove. We live 4 blocks from the beach and we have rust forming on almost all the metal in our house (18 year old house)--from the door hinges to the window screens.....but it does not look like the filiform corrosion to me that I have seen on the newer trailers. When I lived 6 miles from the beach in the same city, I had no rusting metal hinges, etc.....so somewhere between 4 blocks and 6 miles may be the magic answer to where salt air is a problem.

And if salt is the culprit, our 40 year old vintage trailer should be covered with filiform corrosion and it is not....and if keeping the trailer washed and polished is important in avoiding filiform corrosion, then our trailer should be covered with it because I doubt it had been washed other than with rain for many years.

I am sorry that so many people are experiencing this problem and hope that a solution other than nail polish is forthcoming very soon. pj

[2airishuman]

Originally Posted by SteSpot

I am of the opinion that the reported tendency by Airstream to blame salt for corrosion on new trailers is...

actually the 'official' reason suggested by a/s is NOT salt, but exposure to OXYGEN...

this was covered earlier in this thread, and it's even MORE lame than brine....

yep, only the trailers built and used on the moon are gonna escape this blame game.

however IF you read ANY of the excellent filiform references mswartz has linked,

it is chlorides under the clearcoat, at the leading edge that cause filiform corrosion.

this has been covered in great detail many times in this thread but i suspect it's now too long for folks to read about.

as for old polished trailers, i've personally seen 2 that were UNharmed...

till about 4-5 years ago when the state road maintenance station started storing and using mag/cal road salts about 1/4 mile from their homes....

NOW both are totally covered with corrosion that looks like a giant crotched doily EATING these polished 60s units....

cheers
2air'

[Silvertwinkie]

For the record once again, my unit is used staring in April/May and gets put into hibernation in October. It has NEVER been in salt, salt dust, etc. The only salt it has EVER seen was salt in the shaker in the pantry.

I live in the great lakes area. Outside of winter time, there is not a hint of salt (and my unit never sees winter). The nearest saltwater body is several states away from Illinois. My unit is in a somewhat climate controlled environment. Rarely gets below 45 to 50 degrees in the dead of winter. I have a dehumidifier in the garage unit that really is there to take any moisture out, but frankly there is very little humidity in the garage to start with. The unit is not parked on direct concrete, but the electric jack is touching the concrete. The only outside time it does see is when in transit or when using it, which is between 10-15 days per year.

My Safari has seen maybe 9 rainstorms since newly built in late '03 as an '04 model. My Safari has been washed about 2x per year, Walbernized about 2x per year as well, sometime, 3x. Any bugs that splat on the front, get cleaned off as soon as I reach my destination and I am quick to re-apply Walberinze Super Seal to it after.

You can't tell me that it's a maint issue or that salt is the cause of my issue. Oddly enough, you all who have posted have the same issues I have, so it's most likely not the sea, it's most likely not salt..IMHO, it is most likely water getting in between the coating and raw alum. Clearly, if you've read the thread (I know it's long), you'll see that during the manufacturing process there are many areas where the coating is disturbed. I took the tour in 2003 and at least 4x in 2005 when I was at the factory for service. Not once did I witness any type of coating repair or replacement to disturbed areas.

Am I correct in my perception? Only an engineer could say for sure.

What I can say is that my unit is WELL cared for. Anyone who has seen my unit, knows how much time I put into keeping it beyond ship shape. The thought that water or air could do this, simply means that someone hasn't done their job in engineering. Everything outdoors gets exposed to water and air. If a finish can't be made to withstand it, it's about a worthless as a $3 bill.

[SteSpot]

Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie

For the record once again, my unit is used staring in April/May and gets put into hibernation in October. It has NEVER been in salt, salt dust, etc. The only salt it has EVER seen was salt in the shaker in the pantry.

I live in the great lakes area. Outside of winter time, there is not a hint of salt (and my unit never sees winter). The nearest saltwater body is several states away from Illinois. My unit is in a somewhat climate controlled environment. Rarely gets below 45 to 50 degrees in the dead of winter. I have a dehumidifier in the garage unit that really is there to take any moisture out, but frankly there is very little humidity in the garage to start with. The unit is not parked on direct concrete, but the electric jack is touching the concrete.

My Safari has seen maybe 6 rainstorms since newly built in late '03 as an '04 model. My Safari has been washed about 2x per year, Walbernized about 2x per year as well, sometime, 3x. Any bugs that splat on the front, get cleaned off as soon as I reach my destination.

You can't tell me that it's a maint issue or that salt is the cause of my issue. Oddly enough, you all who have posted have the same issues I have, so it's most likely not the sea, it's most likely not salt..IMHO, it is most likely water getting in between the coating and raw alum. Clearly, if you've read the thread (I know it's long), you'll see that during the manufacturing process there are many areas where the coating is disturbed. I took the tour in 2003 and at least 4x in 2005 when I was at the factory for service. Not once did I witness any type of coating repair or replacment to disturbed areas.

Am I correct in my perception? Only an engineer could say for sure.

What I can say is that my unit is WELL cared for. Anyone who has seen my unit, knows how much time I put into keeping it beyond ship shape. The thought that water or air could do this, simply means that someone hasn't done their job in engineering. Everything outdoors gets exposed to water and air. If a finish can't be made to withstand it, it's about a worthless as a $3 bill.

I rest my case.......also, we plan to stay away from salty roads anyway......and store our new vintage trailer in a climate controlled indoor storage facility many miles from the ocean....just to be safe to cover our salt basis....can't avoid oxygen though or perhaps acid wash by acid rain..........pj