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Old 04-02-2008, 08:39 PM   #337
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westfalia
...Maybe it's a good thing that I haven't signed the papers on this trailer.
i agree, don't sign unless you want to accept this unit warts and all...

the options i see are..

1. accept it as is and fiddle around like others do
2. decline the purchase and wait for another one, which may or may not have it.
3. see if a/s or the dealer will agree to add the classic style belt line trim over the horizontal rivet line and panel edge.

# 3 will cover up the edge. done properly (with acryl-r sealant) virtually no water/salt should get to the edges...

bummer chris, but not surprising. EVERY SINGLE UNIT EVER BUILT is subject to road salts and the alcoa finished panels to filiform...

so where are the photos of this stuff?

cheers
2air'
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Old 04-02-2008, 08:55 PM   #338
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westfalia
Maybe it's a good thing that I haven't signed the papers on this trailer.
Totally unreal. I was sort of hoping that they would have found a solution by now, be it more pure alum, re-coating the areas where they disturb the coating during the building process or something. It's just totally unreal to expect someone to pay these warbucks for these and the freakin' things on the lot are already showing corrosion.

You haven't signed any papers? My advice, RUN! Don't walk. Sure it blows you drove all that way, but think about it for one second. You take it, and then what....watch it fill with these white lines more and more every month or so? I know gas is expensive, but your getting off here cheap. Most of us on the other hand don't have the opportunity you have right now. Of course if you don't care or it's not an issue, sign the papers, post your pics here on this thread and join the happy club of owners with this issue! Misery loves company!

Eventually Airstream will have to address this if folks stop buying units, but frankly the economy is going to do this on it's own, but if you refuse one because of the fillform, then that is the harshest critic they will have to date that I am aware of and someone will know that a sale was lost due to this issue. For we folks that have this issue, they already have our $$$$.

Again, if you haven't signed, RUN! It's just the tip of the iceberg....trust me...it only gets worse as the months go on....of this you can be fairly sure. No one to date has ever said..."hey, it's going away on it's own!"
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Old 04-02-2008, 09:11 PM   #339
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Take action

There was an effort to get together some people who were concerned enough to research a product liabilities lawyer and/or experts in fields like metallurgy, chemistry, etc. Has anything come of that?

There are posts from prospective buyers who have second thoughts once reading this very long thread. With gas prices up and the economy down, Thor Industries may notice they are losing sales at a very bad time for the RV industry. Economics may affect them to consider they have a problem.

If someone wants to start Lev's suggested thread, they might also compile all those posts and send them to Thor.

There's also something else going on—some people have filiform problems and some don't. I think they have models from the same years, though maybe different models. What is the difference? Models, location (near the ocean, road salts, what?), different washing techniques, different waxes, no washing or waxing, use of pressure washers forcing hot water into seams, forcing salts into seams? My point: will Airsteam be able to claim it's poor washing or nonwashing techniques, soaps, waxes, etc.? Every one of these questions would come up in litigation. Perhaps Airstream's recommendations on how to clean and preserve the skin would be a factor—either for or against them.

After six months, I have no problems. I keep looking. My Safari was built last August and brought to Denver in the summer or October at the latest. Therefore, less new road salts, perhaps none. The ocean is 1,000 miles away (ocean salt can travel many miles inland, but not that far). The unit Westphalia was going to buy must have been built last winter (an '07) if I recall correctly and shipped to Arkansas when there was lots of salt on the roads. Could that be an answer? Perhaps everyone with filiform problems should see when their Airstreams were built and shipped. It seems to me there are lots of flliform problems in Florida and I wonder if ocean salts travel across the entire peninsula.

Even more difficult to trace are specific shipments of aluminum from Alcoa—do certain shipments come from different factories? Are the manufacturing process different from day to day (quality control)? These would be discovery questions, but by then you are in litigation.

I'm not trying to discourage anyone from taking some sort of action, though reality is somewhat discouraging. If there are a lot of people willing to act and to start compiling information on which models are affected and when they were made and which dealers had them and where they are since purchased, you may see patterns. We are not alluminologists, but there are experts on everything. Maybe contacting university professors who are experts might lead to something—sometimes they are willing to share information or encourage grad students to research it. Some people have posted some very interesting details regarding aluminum—such as #332 posted by Ray. There's something there worth following up as well as Silvertwinkie's mention that EPA has prohibited certain chemicals because they are very dangerous to use.

Gene

I agree this is a very bad problem and that Airstream's response is unconscionable. But you have to take some action—if you have bundles of money, you can hire people to do it, or you can do as much research as possible and look for answers and then if you find something credible, then find a lawyer, or picket the company, paint the trailer, or give up.
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Old 04-02-2008, 09:24 PM   #340
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Hell NO I haven't signed any papers yet, but I am still camping out in the unit tonight, as I have nowhere else to stay! I have pics, I will post soon.

More thoughts as they come . . .
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Old 04-03-2008, 03:32 AM   #341
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i find this 3 year old quote/post from a COMPANY worker pretty funny on this issue...

Quote:
Originally Posted by lynn
Excuse me if I have missed something but,what areas of your trailer are peeling? What year is your trailer?
Airstream built a complete trailer shell and it is sitting at Oasis in Tucson Arizona.
The trailer shell has been sitting there since 1999 with no signs of coating problems. Just curious.
anyone here actually SEEN this shell sitting at oasis in tucson?

it is post #6 in this thread, with a followup in post #11....

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f381...tml#post164044

then there is ALSO the issue of PEELING finish on some of the 'alcoa coated streams...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f474...2-a-16344.html

this thread is also particularly relevant and one of the very early ones to cover the CORROSION issue....

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f236...sues-8654.html

since it is about clearcoat peeling/corrosion AND wheel corrosion issues AND documents a/s providing some (hokey) repairs...

pay particular attention to the info and players noted in #8, #14, #28, #45, #53, #54, and #55.

all the pictures are useful and salt along with many other things are briefly addressed.

panel overlays, added trim and a varitey of other factory repairs for corrosion, that they are NO LONGER providing....

so basically 5 YEARS LATER the problem continues, many MORE folks have and know about the corrosion issue...

and a/s is doing LESS to deal with it....

something very strange about this BACK-PEDALING on owning up to and dealing with this wide spread problem...

that approach canNOT be good for business...

cheers
2air'
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Old 04-03-2008, 07:29 AM   #342
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I personally have no complaints on the fact that when under warranty, Airstream did something and I appreciated it very much. I had thought the issue closed when I left the factory in spring of 2005.

I recall Airstream saying that they would service the heck out of their customers, and frankly, for the prices asked and paid for these, they should!

This isn't personal. As I've said, I like the folks at the factory, they are very nice, friendly folks. This is a business issue I have with the company overall and 2Air is right, they are not servicing their customers who are under warranty as they said they would and have done in the past for others. Some shift appears to have happened in the last 12 months where they are simply now being more selective on what they will address that is wrong with the product, and although I can fully agree that they have some things in the warranty wording that say the exterior is a maint item, I cannot accept the fact that this is as wide spread as it is and they expect folks to simply accept that pile of horse manure answer. I mean if this were some $8k SOB, I'd be less motivated, but we're talking a premium product with a significant issue that effects the overall appearance of the product and given the high prices paid, a lot more to loose on depreciation and value if the exterior in a year or two is already failing in some capacity! As I said before I wasn't looking for the finishes to last forever, maybe about 9-10 years, but heck with some new units on lots with it, what does that tell you?!

In the end this isn't going to go away from the looks of things and 2Air is again right when he says the problem is growing (with new units on lots with the issue from what we've heard), and Airstream is doing less about it.

At the beginning of this thread and someplaces in between I/we asked you to post on this thread:

Your units build date
Descriptons of the issues you've seen
Photos, photos, photos

Some have done it, some not.

Later on I/we asked that you PM me the following info to be added to an off forum list if you felt you wanted to participate in anything that may or could be done:


Name
Address
email address
Phone (optional)
VIN
Build date
Full description of the issues

Later as the list grew, I was planning on contacting all those who have not posted pics, to either post the pics or email them to me where I would add them to the database to hopefully and eventually take some sort of action, what that action is has yet to be really determined fully, but.....
To date, out of all these folks, I have received maybe 3 PMs from folks.

I am not promising anything will be done, but I am putting a list together. You can be on it or not, just as in this thread, you can choose to put the requested info in or not. If you post, photos speak louder than words.

I posted this a few hundres posts ago, but here are some pics (not great quality) of my corrosion issues around the time I first started this thread. I can tell you it's gotten slightly worse since these photos.

Airstream Issue
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Old 04-03-2008, 11:25 AM   #343
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picking ours up tomorrow

and am very concerned after reading through this thread!

We have signed all the papers, payment has been made, etc., this is just a "shake down" night on the lot, overview with techies, install hitch, and off we go. I had thought we would still get to do an inspection prior to taking possession, but now I think the paperwork made it ours even though we haven't picked up yet.

Is it too late? Probably, yes. What do I do if I see evidence of problems? I will try to find the photos that have been posted to study them to see what exactly I am looking for.

We saw the unit, on a rainy day, weeks ago. Spent more time in than out. We had major aluminitis and the glow of the Airstream reputation and I am not sure if there was any evidence of a problem we did not know to look for.

We had not intended to purchase that day, really went just to look, so I hadn't done the research I would normally do before such a major purchase. The impulsivity was VERY unlike us! Hope we don't regret it
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Old 04-03-2008, 11:57 AM   #344
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Cat, you are hardly alone in being struck by aluminitis and signing before researching enough. They are so easy to want.

After the inspection, you will be given a document that says you inspected everything and it's all ok. I added a line something like this: "I inspected the unit and so far as I could tell, I could not find problems, but reserve all rights to make claims based on things I missed." They didn't like it, but what could they do? Lose the sale? or just accept it. They actually have a lot to lose from a failed sale. You don't have to accept a substandard unit.

No one can see everything in a few inspections, often too fast. They gave us 2 hours, I insisted on more time and got it. No matter what they tell you, deals can be undone if you don't want to accept the unit. Sales are slow, especially now, and they want to move the units (they borrow money to buy them from A/S, interest is running). You are in control, not them, although they don't like to admit it. If they threaten you or try to BS you, stand your ground. You can always say you'll post your experience on the Forum and name names.

Things rarely get that bad and I don't advise going in there looking for trouble, but being nice until you have to get firm is the best way. Never get in an angry confrontation or they will get defensive and it's harder to resolve issues. Just assert yourself quietly. Dealers come in all shades and some are better (or worse) than others. This is a very big purchase and you have every reason to be concerned, not just about filiform, but all the things that can be faulty on a new unit.

Welcome (I hope) to the Forum and I hope it will all work out.

Gene
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Old 04-03-2008, 02:40 PM   #345
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i agree with gene it's easy to get sucked into the silver vortex without a head, but...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roamin' Cat
...We have signed all the papers, payment has been made, etc....

...I had thought we would still get to do an inspection prior to taking possession, but now I think the paperwork made it ours even though we haven't picked up yet...

..Is it too late? Probably, yes. What do I do if I see evidence of problems?...
this doesn't relate to filiform corrosion specifically so i don't wanna hijack the thread...

on to the topic of "assuming ownership, taking delivery and signing papers"...

but once you sign it's YOURS.

the greatest leverage and least risk is BEFORE signing/accepting the unit.

for example IF it needs to go back to the dealer or back to j/c for work, you will have to take it and/or PAY to get it back there.

these are expensive purchases folks and if you sign without carefully inspecting or sorting out the issues...

the problems become yours.

not to make your head spin, and you'll need eye drops to read this stuff but,

here are some posts to help YOU better understand and be more informed 'cats ...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/218755-post136.html

http://www.airforums.com/forums/528020-post8.html

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f353...tml#post258138

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f353...tml#post483683

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f296...tml#post144289

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f292...ime-31954.html

while there are threads for EACH year, the 05 string has the most DETAILS about items that have needed fixing...

and how various folks have handled this with the factory or dealer network...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f142...ing-11189.html

so perhaps ask the 'delivery/accept' questions in any of the above threads...

which may help you or other NEW BUYERS go into the transaction better prepared.

cheers
2air'
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Old 04-03-2008, 06:21 PM   #346
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UPDATE, the dealer, Airstream of Arkansas, has made all better, and I'm in a new 08 WITHOUT corrosion. More updates when they arrive!
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Old 04-03-2008, 07:23 PM   #347
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westfalia
UPDATE, the dealer, Airstream of Arkansas, has made all better, and I'm in a new 08 WITHOUT corrosion. More updates when they arrive!
Well that's not all that shocking, A of A is a pretty decent shop. At first, I had thought you had gone to some unknow dealer. I would trust A of A to do the right thing for the customer from what is in their control.......

Besides being a forum member, I've heard nothing but great things about A of A.

Just know that it's without corrosion for now, and lets hope it stays that way for ya! Mine didn't have any either when I got it and it was only days off the factory floor when I got it, as it was a special order.

PS- Make sure you post your overall QC findings in the 2008 QC thread:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f142...ity-31210.html
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Old 04-03-2008, 08:19 PM   #348
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Congratulations Westphalia! Did you get it at the same price as the '07? What are they going to do with the '07?

Now you have to get it up your driveway and hope it isn't snowing in Evergreen. Looks like a chance of rain or snow starting Monday.

Post pictures.

Gene
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Old 04-03-2008, 08:28 PM   #349
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Great news

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westfalia
UPDATE, the dealer, Airstream of Arkansas, has made all better, and I'm in a new 08 WITHOUT corrosion. More updates when they arrive!
Good to see that the dealer solved your problem, now all you have to do is change your signature to 08.
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Old 04-03-2008, 11:39 PM   #350
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My 07 had zero problems on delivery. It was however covered in de-ice. I'm not certain if there are salts in the formula that is used out here. What I do know is that within three months, it is all over the beltline and wheels. Keep us informed on this 08, it would be interesting to know if Airstream has changed there manufacturing process.
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