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Old 11-05-2007, 07:41 PM   #253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lewster
Well, after about 6 weeks of exposure after I applied the Corrosion-X Aviation formula to the filliform, I have not seen any other white spidery growth around the affected areas.

That said, the C-X turned the fillifirm a light brown, and actually seemed to reduce the height of it, but it is not gone....just seems to be stopped in it's tracks.

My next trial is to remove the corrosion entirely and expose the bare aluminum, match the finish of the original surface, re-treat the area and see what happens......in essence, making the area tatally invisible. I fully expect the C-X formula to protect the newly renovated areas. The challenge will be to develop a methodology that is relatively simple to perform and let the C-X do the rest in the way of protection.

I don't mind applying it once or twice a year.......just like waxing.

Stay tuned for the next report (and pictures)....hopefully with-in a couple of weeks!
Lew would you suggest I apply C-X on the entire trailer if the trailer is brand new and has no signs of corrosion as a preventative measure?
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Old 11-05-2007, 08:32 PM   #254
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sorry but c-x isn't much good.

c-x is too much like wd-40.

it's a penetrate and lubricant, that claims to "make rusty chains like new" and do other silly things.

this summer i did a few simple tests with this product.

1. 2 samples bare aluminum, 2 samples soft iron, 2 samples galvanized steel, 2 samples brass

2. each sample was partially covered (with tape) and exposed to the out of doors for 2 weeks.

this was enough time and rain for significant rust on the iron, darkening of the galvanized steel and a light layer of 'stuff' on the aluminum and brass.

3. the covered areas were exposed and a patch was 'scuffed into each surface' with a scotch brite...

4. then each sample was treated with c-x. all of the metals was sprayed, coated or SOAKED in c-x.

5. 24 hours later another coat of c-x was applied.

6. the samples were then left outside in midwest weather. temps were 75-98 and it rained about 4 times over the next 5 weeks.

7. to make the test truely fair i left town in the a/s for the 5 weeks of exposure.

8. the samples were undisturbed during that time.

9. upon my return, the iron ALL had the same degree of rust, there was NO difference on the treated metal areas.

10. the galvanized steel all looked the same and the scuffed areas were rusty even with c-x.

11. the aluminum samples all looked the same too with not much visible change.

12. so the aluminum samples were RECOATED with c-x and the next day...

13. a weak salt solution was sprayed on the aluminum (na/cl and ca/cl were used)

14. 3 days later, following a rain the aluminum samples were EQUALLY corroded.

so imo c-x is useless after a short time and with exposure to rain and salt.

the product claims to NOT have any wax or silicones in it...

imo this is a negative.

boeshield t-9 DOES leave a waxy residue, which IS the principle long term corrosion/water protection...

Rust Prevention Rust Protection Metal Penetrating Lubrication Anti Corrosives Multi Purpose Metal Protection BOESHIELD T-9

there are multi product comparisons reported EARLIER in this thread....

that suggest t-9 lasts longer.

so to answer this question...

Quote:
...would you suggest I apply C-X on the entire trailer if the trailer is brand new and has no signs of corrosion as a preventative measure?
absolutely NOT with ANY of these products...

get a good coat of wax/sealant on it and repeat that as needed.

the trim pieces, light bezels, wheels and other bits that do NOT have clearcoat protection...

should be treated/coated with something, like a good bare metal polish.

then buy a can or 2 of b/t-9 and use it as needed on any filliform that may develop, it will last longer than other similar sprays.

as a last step for the truly compulsive spray some t-9 on a rag and coat all the rivet heads...

they are naked aluminum too...

cheers
2air'
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Old 11-06-2007, 06:49 AM   #255
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If you ask me (and you didn't ), I think the factory may need to seriously look at getting back into the coating business in some way shape or form. From my exp with this, I am of the firm belief that no matter what you do, it's gonna happen. Waxing and keeping it clean represent only a small part of the overall solution.

In the attached pictures, you'll see sheets of alum, plain as day. Then there is a machine that they have at the factory that punches holes into the sheetmetal for the rivets. From there you'll see what a finished panel looks like and a the attachment process along the way.

When the alum is sitting on the shelves, it's totally coated with the Aloca added finish. When they punch holes into the coated metal, route out holes for windows, doors, etc, they appear to disturb the coating. Once that is done, and if the area disturbed, like a rivet for example does not completely re-seal the disturbed hole, water, humidity, and all things that effect aluminum can get into these areas and eventually show this problem. This is why I believe some have it bad and some not as bad, and some, so far not at all...it's all on how badly disturbed and successfully resealed the disturbed places are completed.

I say this from the standpoint that nearly every single place I have this problem can be traced back to a rivet line, edge, non-coated item or routed out hole. It's the only thing that makes any sense. As I've said, I keep mine indoors and keep it clean and waxed. It's most likely one of the most pampered Airstreams out there, without question. Something has caused this and frankly, if I'm even remotely correct, the only thing that may slow or stop this is for the skins to be re-coated after a part of production to re-seal the disturbed areas. Also, sealing the access door trim pieces and rims would also help. It is possible that adding some sort of gasket at the base of the rivet may also help seal the hole properly, but that won't solve the routed out holes and cut edges that show the issue, that's why I say clear the trailers entirely after production so that all areas are again sealed. Of course, we alll have seen in 10 years of less what the clear coated Airstreams do, but maybe a combo of the two processes? I don't know...all I do know is that a person spending 2-3x more than the average RV should expect less issues with the exterior.

BTW, has anyone else noticed that few, if any, have reported this on the inside of the CCD/SE skins? I may be wrong here and if so, please correct me, but the inside skins and rivets are the same as the outside, yes? Inside of trailers I would assume also get humid, not wet (typically) or exposed to the outside environment......just another thought.....
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Old 11-06-2007, 07:48 AM   #256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie
BTW, has anyone else noticed that few, if any, have reported this on the inside of the CCD/SE skins? I may be wrong here and if so, please correct me, but the inside skins and rivets are the same as the outside, yes? Inside of trailers I would assume also get humid, not wet (typically) or exposed to the outside environment......just another thought.....
Good point, I would also like to know if anyone has seen this on the inside. FYI, I was at JC yesterday having some warranty work done, so I took the tour. While no one else was around, I mentioned to our guide (Don?) that I had read about some cases of filiform corrosion problems on Airstream skins. I asked him if Airstream was addressing these issues. He looked at me with a blank face, and said he had not heard of such a problem. Good salesmanship? ... maybe, but he has worked there for 45 years and seemed like an honest man.
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Old 11-06-2007, 08:11 AM   #257
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I have yet to find any corrosion blemishes on the inside skin of our SE.

Cheers,
-jd.
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Old 11-06-2007, 09:27 AM   #258
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Aside from over a half dozen missing rivets, the inside has been spared this cancer.

What I find interesting (depressing) is that not only are the skins coroding, but EVERYTHING that is made of aluminum. The door hinges, the light bexel things. I've mentioned before that some of the bolts on our zip-dee awing show signs of corrosion, and those are not made by AS. Granted, our unit has not been nearly as pampered as twinks, but it has not been near sea water, driven around on winter salt and so on.

Maybe it's global warming. Or the Republicans.

At this rate, I think our Eurovan will outlast the CCD!

Jonathan
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Old 11-06-2007, 10:51 AM   #259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazylev
Maybe it's ...... the Republicans.
No doubt.

(Hey, it's election day!)
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Old 11-06-2007, 11:17 AM   #260
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mostly this thread is being bumped so folks can see it....

i like that.

we've covered the fact that a/s stacks, stores and uses the alcoa skin like pre-painted plywood.

so i agree the INITIAL issue is handling during construction...

and any nicks into the coating are potential spots for corrosion.

but the individual sheets of aluminum have a protective film layer that isn't removed unit they start the assembly process....

see the photo below.

i agree cutting, poking and so on disturb the coating at the edges....

and the rivets are BARE aluminum. most of the trim pieces are not coated and do not have the alcoa finish...

so applying the belt line trim really IS the best treatment when that is the location of corrosion...

my few small spots are NOT on rivet or skin cut lines....

they are where road debris peppered the unit and i failed to wax.

i have a hugh gouge in the side done (by me) on day one with the awning arm.

down to bare metal, but 2.5 years and no corrosion, because i wax that spot every couple of months...

lev...

you stored your unit in a heated building? for awhile?

heated storage is well known to cause rusting and decay, ask a car collector.

also it was washed ONCE? in 2 1/2 years?

the unit looks nasty in your photos (post 124) but most (none) of that isn't filliform corrosion...

the problem folks (our problem) is that calcium chloride and magnesium chloride are EVERYWHERE in middle america.

these salts are way more distructive than sodium chloride....

so while we don't have ocean costal salt, we do have extranastydon'tputthisonyourfood salt!

many news stories about cars and bridges and aero planes melting from this stuff.

and yes you folks near the 2nd city have this problem too...

lick yer trailer and tell me what it tastes like...

didn't you also have a set of suv wheels replaced for corrosion twink?

a/s hasn't dealt with this issue.

i suspect they don't know HOW to deal with it. NO ONE does yet.

using these more destructive road salts has only been an issue for 6-7 years.

so our best approach is to prevent/minimize it...

that means regular and frequent washings followed by LOTS of rinsing with salt free water.

and regular coatings of something.

the inner skin is much less likely to have nicks (they peel the film off later in construction...

and it has less exposure to corrosive elements...

cheers
2air'

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Old 11-06-2007, 11:57 AM   #261
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Excellent analysis, 2air. Even using tap water to wash with has some salt in it. The chlorine bonds with sodium in the water, a guess what? Table salt, NaCl. They just about flood the roads with Mag Chloride in Colorado. Besides killing roadside vegetation and runoff into streams, I suspect once it dries, dried salt is coating vehicles all year. There's no escape. Maybe we should wash with distilled water.
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Old 11-06-2007, 12:17 PM   #262
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Joe, it is true, GM replaced my rims due to corroision on them. Keep in mind a few things.

First, the Suburban has been exposed to salts of all kinds here in the rust belt since the 2004 winter when I got it. It becomes the daily driver when there is more than 2" of snow, so it does see a significant amount of road salts and various chorides. It has stayed outside for weeks at a time, though it does mostly stay in the garage. Still the corrosion on my Suburban rims was totally pale in comparison to what happened on the my first set of rims on the Safari and on the second set, let alone my 2nd set of tail lights and the body. The Airstream has never been in any snow since I took delivery, no salt or chorides of any kind. When I got it, I washed and waxed it right away and has been on the wash and wax routine since new. Rims, tail lights and entry access door trim as well. My corrosion on the Safari is on the sheetmetal under the rivets, the cuts, rivets on the general body (not near the rivet line), rivet line corrosion at the cuts, door trims, tail lights, rims and on and on.

None of my rivets appear to be corroding in any way, but the sheetmetal around it is.

As for a gouge in the sheetmetal from the awning....man, me too, just this past weekend too. I was beyond upset, but I too waxed the heck out of it and will continue to do so.

By the way, the observation of the CCD/SE interior was to point out that it isn't a dissimilar metal thing as some may have thought way, way back. If it were, the inside skins would show this too, but it is interesting to note that the interiors do get humidity, yet no ill effects reported. My inside backsplash in the kitchen area, right as rain, of course, like the outside, has seen little to no environmental exposure to most anything, yet has the issue all over the outside.....
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Old 11-06-2007, 02:14 PM   #263
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2air has raised some very good points and one factor with the various salts applied to roads in the winter is that they do not necessarily disappear during good weather. With rain, melting snow, etc. they dissolve and that solution flows into the abundant pore spaces in the road surface and road shoulders where it dries and the salts precipitate as very fine (dustlike) crystals. That crystalline material surely comes loose as dust any time of the year that the roads are dry and can collect on the surface of our Airstreams. Wash the Airstream, the dustlike crystals dissolve and that solution enters surface cracks or the spaces around rivets, etc.

As for the lack of corrosion on rivets themselves, it will be much less obvious than the filiform corrosion of the clearcoated skin. There, the corrosion is localized and under the clearcoat so that none of the powdery oxide can be rubbed off.
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Old 11-06-2007, 02:27 PM   #264
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I have no dog in this fight so I only post for informational purposes only. I have not read the whole thread but have from time to time kept up with your corrosion issues Silvertwinkie.

If you feel salt is the root cause then there are salt removal chemicals that would be Airstream safe. We use these on our AUV's operated in marine environments. The salt that dries on the internal frameworks is stagering. We have had great success with this product in removing all traces of salt buildup and contamination.

Salt Elim Salt Removal Chemical
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Old 11-06-2007, 02:55 PM   #265
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I guess I'll just take my bet and ball and go home!

If anyone else is interested in the results that I get on my CCD, you can PM me as I won't post to this thread again. Experimentation is great, but my results differ in the real world.......yours may also.

Thanks!
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Old 11-06-2007, 03:17 PM   #266
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lewster
If anyone else is interested in the results that I get on my CCD, you can PM me as I won't post to this thread again.
That's a shame, as I always find your posts informative and helpful. Plus I'm affected .
I'll continue to look forward to your insights elsewhere.

Cheers,
-jd.
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