Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 11-09-2013, 02:42 PM   #1751
Rivet Master
 
dkottum's Avatar
 
2012 25' Flying Cloud
Battle Lake , Minnesota
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,445
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveSueMac View Post
Thanks Doug. I guess the dealer didn't quite get it right. I'll try to seal for now and then had Jackson have a look. Thanks for the tip on the recliners. We're going to TRY to keep the portion of the couch that has a pull out for a bed and use 2 recliners. That may not work and of so, we'll go with just the one. Calling this week to set it up for an April trip.
Dealer does have it right, don't seal the bottom edges as they allow inevitable water (sooner or later) to drain. Just fix the pin holes.
__________________

__________________
Doug and Cheryl
2012 FC RB, Michelin 16, ProPride 1400
2016 Ram 1500 Laramie Crew Cab 4X4 Ecodiesel 3.92 axles

The Truth is More Important Than the Facts
dkottum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2013, 02:52 PM   #1752
Rivet Master
 
SteveSueMac's Avatar

 
2012 27' Flying Cloud
W , New England
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 5,065
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkottum View Post

Dealer does have it right, don't seal the bottom edges as they allow inevitable water (sooner or later) to drain. Just fix the pin holes.
Oh - I missed that. You're saying the gap in caulk/parabond between the trailer shell and the bottom of the light casing is intentional? If so, I can just be on a pinhole search.



Click image for larger version

Name:	image-655316505.jpg
Views:	113
Size:	468.6 KB
ID:	199638
__________________

__________________
SteveSueMac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2013, 02:53 PM   #1753
Rivet Master
 
dkottum's Avatar
 
2012 25' Flying Cloud
Battle Lake , Minnesota
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,445
Also Steve' I just noticed in your last photo there may be moisture on the inside lens surface. Perhaps from a pin holes in the sealant, or aiming the hose at the underside when washing. The opening in the bottom edge sealant may allow this to dry out, and is the reason for not sealing all around.
__________________
Doug and Cheryl
2012 FC RB, Michelin 16, ProPride 1400
2016 Ram 1500 Laramie Crew Cab 4X4 Ecodiesel 3.92 axles

The Truth is More Important Than the Facts
dkottum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2013, 04:27 PM   #1754
Winemaker
 
rgwatkin's Avatar
 
2012 28' Flying Cloud
Avila Beach , California
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 150
Images: 2
Griot's Paint Sealer

Somewhere in this long thread I saw someone not recommend Walburizing but use "Griots Paint Sealer". Does anyone have any experience with this? I am in the process of moving to within a couple of miles of the Pacific coast and want to be very careful. I have a 2012 FC and to date have not touched it with anything other then frequent washings. Any recommendations on what to use? Any by the way...once you see any corrosion it has gone inter granular and your fixes are difficult if not impossible.
__________________
rgwatkin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2013, 05:28 PM   #1755
CLOUDSPLITTER Phone home
 
ROBERT CROSS's Avatar

 
2003 25' Classic
Zanadude Nebula , WNY
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 10,806
Images: 1
Thumbs up

Been using Griot's Sealer since getting the Classic, best product I've tried...good discussion here.

Bob
__________________
"If your confused about what to do, whatever you end up doing will turn out to be the right thing to have done."
DJT

"The problem with quotes found on the Internet is that it's hard to be sure of their authenticity."
Abe Lincolan
ROBERT CROSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2013, 07:59 PM   #1756
Rivet Master
 
dkottum's Avatar
 
2012 25' Flying Cloud
Battle Lake , Minnesota
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,445
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgwatkin View Post
Somewhere in this long thread I saw someone not recommend Walburizing but use "Griots Paint Sealer". Does anyone have any experience with this? I am in the process of moving to within a couple of miles of the Pacific coast and want to be very careful. I have a 2012 FC and to date have not touched it with anything other then frequent washings. Any recommendations on what to use? Any by the way...once you see any corrosion it has gone inter granular and your fixes are difficult if not impossible.
I don't think paint sealer or polish in itself will protect the cut exposed edges, rivet holes, and external fittings from corrosion. Polish and treating with CorrosionX, and Boeshield T-9 for the underbody steel, has kept our trailer absolutely corrosion free since new, 15 months traveling.

Pretty good discussion and summary in this thread pages 120-123.
__________________
Doug and Cheryl
2012 FC RB, Michelin 16, ProPride 1400
2016 Ram 1500 Laramie Crew Cab 4X4 Ecodiesel 3.92 axles

The Truth is More Important Than the Facts
dkottum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2013, 10:10 PM   #1757
Rivet Master
 
Howard L.'s Avatar

 
2012 30' Flying Cloud
San Antonio , Texas
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 582
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveSueMac View Post
Oh - I missed that. You're saying the gap in caulk/parabond between the trailer shell and the bottom of the light casing is intentional? If so, I can just be on a pinhole search.
SteveSue, if the dealer followed JCs instruction sheet, they used Acryl R for the sealing of, like Doug said, all 3 pieces: cast base to aluminum skin, old plastic Chrome base to new cast Classic base, and LED light fixture to its original plastic chrome base. Leave a small drain opening at the lower side of each Classic base and the trailer skin. Any pin hole will let moisture in so re-seal with Acryl R or aluminum color ParBond will work. Order Acryl R from JC. ParBond on internet. If you already have moisture in any of your LEDs, let it dry out before resealing with Acryl R. (Try a heat lamp or light bulb next to the LED for a few days.). Alcohol is solvent for clean up of Acryl R and ParBond.
__________________
Howard L. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2013, 10:31 PM   #1758
Rivet Master
 
Howard L.'s Avatar

 
2012 30' Flying Cloud
San Antonio , Texas
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 582
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkottum View Post
I don't think paint sealer or polish in itself will protect the cut exposed edges, rivet holes, and external fittings from corrosion. Polish and treating with CorrosionX, and Boeshield T-9 for the underbody steel, has kept our trailer absolutely corrosion free since new, 15 months traveling. Pretty good discussion and summary in this thread pages 120-123.
Said this before, but will repeat here. The overlapping edges are one of the prime spots for the beginning of filiform. Most probably because of damage of clear coat on the edges during JC construction of the unit. If you will go over all edges with a clear coat using a fine point artist touch up brush, you will insure that you have no skinned off or missing clear coat areas and thus nip that problem in the bud. The other areas such as rivets, and even the edges after re-clear coating, still need the maintenance of Corrosion X, etc on a regular basis to keep your unit corrosion free. (Corrosion free = wishful thinking but at least we try). Also, when you treat any small area of filiform with corrosion x, if you will seal that area in with that same touch brush of clear coat, you will have sealed moisture out and a small residue do the corrosion x in. That corrosion should be neutralized for good.
__________________
Howard L. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2013, 02:02 PM   #1759
Rivet Master
 
Gene's Avatar
 
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Grand Junction , Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10,814
Pin holes happen for a couple of reasons (I think). One is contraction as the sealant dries and leaves a pinhole. The other is when caulking with sealant, the caulk may be a lot thinner than you realize when applying it. Caulking is an art that takes experience and few of us do it that often to be good at it. Sometimes I get the bead just right, but as time goes by, I want to get it over with and have to watch that I am not applying it too fast leaving too thin a bead.

My solution is to put a lot on, often leaving a mess hard to clean up, but it seals better. When the sealant dries, check it out for pinholes and go back and apply some more. Going over it a 2nd time is a pain after you've put the caulking gun away and want to be done with it, but it is a good practice to check your work after a week or two. I confess, I don't check it after a week or two, but my sloppy method must work, because I haven't had a leak in more than a year. To make the sloppiness disappear, don't wash the trailer and hope the coating of dirt acts as an additional sealant.

Gene
__________________
Gene is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2013, 04:08 AM   #1760
3 Rivet Member
 
1972 21' Globetrotter
Wylie , Texas
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moflash View Post
It just seems upon close inspection that our trailers seem to have filform in the areas where steel screws fasten parts to the aluminum structure ie taillight bezels,grab handles,clearance lights,wheel trim,rear bumper etc.
And on electrified components it seems to get bad quick (tail light housings,clearance lights)c.Could it bee that stringing 12 volt wiring thru out a aluminum on steel grounding structure and energizing it create a problem?
When I changed out my 15 inch wheels for 16's my trailer had less than 800 miles and I noticed filform on the aluminum wheels around every lug nut hole in a perfect circle that each hole had the exact same pattern of corrosion (thats 20 holes).My trailer has never been near the ocean and is hand washed and dried before during and after use(top and bottom),hand waxed at least 3 times a year with a ultra high grade polymer wax (I even wax the frame)and stored indoors when not in use on a plastic covered floor so that moisture does not wick up from the ground.Yes I use Boeshield and Corrosion X but It still forms This leads me to believe alot of this corrosion is caused by electrolysis.Along the seams where the two pieces of aluminum sheeting meet is also a problem area for our trailers and everyone points the finger at sloppy handling of the sheets chipping off the clear coat.But could it actually be the rivet stems being a different metal composition are creating a positive vs negative charge and thus contaminating the area and allowing electrolysis to work its magic and gain a quick foothold in the areas where the clear coat has been chipped.And plcing the structure next to salt water would amplify and speed up the process. Food for thought , just a theory.....
Any degreed electrical engineers out there I would like to here what you have to say.
I think Moflash, you are spot on. This needs to be considered methodically. First of all, this should be approached as a condition (I won' t say disease). I have skimmed through this thread. In the beginning it took awhile for enough people to step forward and finally conclude that the condition exists. Does anyone feel a condition does not exist?

Then reports came on the location of the affected areas: rear tail lights, license plate lights, front door handle/ locks, hubs and midline with intermittent rivets and panels affected.
But it seems to me that you could say the issue follows the places where there are most likely leaks in electricity and will concentrate on areas with the purest and thickest Aluminum or water on it's way to the ground. Corrosion forms as a way for the metal to complete the circuit. And it would seem that clearcoating may have only dispersed the charge.

Imagine a charge that may be given off now held in. It seems that most have assumed that the problem was related to direct contact with environmental factors. But if eliminating the environment were the fix, then clear coat would be the cure. But it has been more of a smokescreen (and I do not mean intentionally). The point is that environment and sealing all have an effect on the condition, but none are the cure. Do I know the cure? Not without effectively determining the problem. But there is a cure.

I am not an expert on almost any of the elements involved, but I am a logical thinker. And a methodological one. And I do not have a newer trailer. My first impression when I discovered the corrosion on my trailer was that it looked like what was my first experience with corrosion as a child-- Batteries left in a toy for too long, leaving a thick, white, crusty exudate.

So I have a simple theory- The Trailers themselves become batteries due to the 12 volt systems and the wiring all around. Maybe better thought of as amplifiers for the smaller batteries they contain, especially volatile due to the grounding of the Al-contained systems to steel. Now this is only theory and I really don't even have enough knowledge of electronics to test it. But I'm not sure I have even seen anyone suggest to perform scientific testing on this. And I know I surely do not have the time or the means.

But in using the scientific method, you need controls. This is the only way to isolate different conditions to determine causation. For example, Take a any production year. Let's say 2003. Look at one that has had what would be considered a typical life (exposed to weather, maybe some storage inside, but many outings). Then another 2003 that was never used outside of a garage, but had still been camped in inside the garage with utilization of electrical systems, water hookups, tanks, etc. just never outside. Finally, the same production year that had seen no activity at all discovered hidden away at JC under a tarp. You can isolate different characteristics to help determine causality. Upon inspection, it would be most interesting to see the differences in the skins and levels of corrosion.

You may have an idea of what you would find in each case, But you wouldn't know for sure unless you tested. If Airstream has any scientists, they should be performing some tests, especially in response to the type of issues I have read about here. And maybe they are or even have. But it could be as simple as taking small squares of Al skin material and some of the fixtures (rivets, handles, light) and exposing them to all sorts of different combinations of components (coating, bare, surface, edge, electrical forces, grounded, ungrounded, water, steel, etc. in proximity to wiring), etc., you get the idea.

I think the difficulty is that there are so many factors and the models and methods change over time. But I would not have been so interested in this topic had I not just found serious corrosion due to the rear end floor rot on my '72. It just seems in my case it was a result of a prolonged issue of neglect and design flaw that took its time to appear. But it seems that the issues have become more pronounced over time with seemingly more attention having been paid to means that should be improving it, like plastic coating.

Regardless, my feeling is that it has definitely something to do with electricity. Any other factors, like environment and design are pertinent in their influence over the electrical circuit. I am also guessing that Airstreams are getting bigger batteries and more voltage over time due to increased technology demands as well. So, any scientists out there with free time willing to test the "Airstream as a big battery with ground leaks" theory.

When someone reports having issues, I think the health of and especially any modifications to the electrical system should be noted to determine common denominators. For instance, what if there were some faulty, improperly grounded convertors installed at JC that may be the cause? Just some thoughts... There have been excellent observations and communications, but until tested, all we have are guesses. Most of the exchanges seem to focus on symptoms, but not the cure.
__________________
rippie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2013, 05:14 AM   #1761
CLOUDSPLITTER Phone home
 
ROBERT CROSS's Avatar

 
2003 25' Classic
Zanadude Nebula , WNY
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 10,806
Images: 1
Points well considered....

but....why was there no filiform on our 63 Safari that did not use pre-coated Alcoa panels?

We did have dis-simuliar metal corrosion at out-rigger contact points and from use of mild steel fasteners, our first up-grade on the Classic, swap all for stainless.
I also repaired a lot of pealing clear-coat on the Classic, door hinges, tail-light bezels, battery surrounds, that was just plain rotten application during manufacture. Nothing to do with filiform.

Bob
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	BATTERY DOOR CORROSION REPAIR 003.jpg
Views:	78
Size:	463.8 KB
ID:	199979  
Attached Images
  
__________________
"If your confused about what to do, whatever you end up doing will turn out to be the right thing to have done."
DJT

"The problem with quotes found on the Internet is that it's hard to be sure of their authenticity."
Abe Lincolan
ROBERT CROSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2013, 09:01 AM   #1762
3 Rivet Member
 
1972 21' Globetrotter
Wylie , Texas
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 140
Robert
Not sure exactly all I'm looking at here. But if question is why no filiform on '63? Better quality materials, not same type of plastic coat, lesser voltage/ different electrical system? I dunno. The point is there is a difference. Why? Got me.
I also feel that it is notable that I had corrosion due to the poor conditions of design and PO maintenance. Now, however, owners who are vigilant with there regular walbernizations and anti-corrosives are seeing it without the prolonged "perfect storm" of corrosion formation that was present in my situation. (Still not sure I understand the comparison).
What was the rotten application during manufacture? The clear coat not adhering properly, you mean?
If you read my (uninformed and unqualified) theory, it would be interesting to compare an anomaly Airstream that somehow had not gotten any coating at all during production from the same time period to one that had to check its filiform levels and patterns.
Isn't it pretty well known that the filiform really began during a certain phase where materials and coatings changed? Of course, the electrical systems have been continually evolving as well.
I just think when it comes to determining cause, the differences need to be examined point by point. Old vs. new can be a lot like comparing apples to oranges.
__________________
rippie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2013, 09:40 AM   #1763
Rivet Master
 
Moflash's Avatar
 
2007 28' International CCD
Springfield , Missouri
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,041
Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS View Post
but....why was there no filiform on our 63 Safari that did not use pre-coated Alcoa panels?

We did have dis-simuliar metal corrosion at out-rigger contact points and from use of mild steel fasteners, our first up-grade on the Classic, swap all for stainless.
I also repaired a lot of pealing clear-coat on the Classic, door hinges, tail-light bezels, battery surrounds, that was just plain rotten application during manufacture. Nothing to do with filiform.

Bob
Bob
In all the items that you have pictured dis-simiular metals are present.Hinge pins,fasteners and I would also think that the rivets could be considered.(Did they use a different type of in earlier Airstreams?)
I believe that some of the filform reported is caused by the lack of clear coat but not all.
There is something else at play here.Could be more than one.
I do not have all the answers but I have noticed that on items that are wired,tail lights,clearance lights,water heater surrounds etc....the corrosion is quicker to grow and almost always present.And when a little salt air (or from the roads in some areas of the country)is added it grows even at a faster rate.
Then the areas that have dis-simular metals,door handles.lug nuts,wheel opening moulding also show high rates of corrosion growth.
Food for thought..........
__________________
Moflash is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2013, 09:53 AM   #1764
Rivet Master
 
dkottum's Avatar
 
2012 25' Flying Cloud
Battle Lake , Minnesota
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,445
Filiform corrosion happens where aluminum is coated with a sealed surface such as Alcoa uses for Airstream, the surface is opened (by an assembly cut or common scratch), and a water/salt solution (such as experienced near the coasts) contacts the exposed aluminum.

Take away the surface coating, the cut or scratch, or the water/salt solution and you will solve or at least minimize your Airstream filiform problem. You probably don't want to take away the surface coating but that may explain why an old Airstream or my 40 year old aluminum canoe doesn't have any.

A regular inspection and maintenance program is a part of satisfied ownership. More frequent maintenance is needed on the coast than in the desert, so there is no one-size-fits-all maintenance program.

We inspect/maintain quarterly but if used on the coast would probably wash and inspect after each visit.

Oh, yes dissimilar metals in contact with each other corrode because they become little batteries producing tiny electrical current between them when the salt solution is added, producing other material (crud) we call corrosion. The non-scientific answer. Again, keep the salt solution away from the metals by coating with clear paint and/or corrosion prevention products.
__________________

__________________
Doug and Cheryl
2012 FC RB, Michelin 16, ProPride 1400
2016 Ram 1500 Laramie Crew Cab 4X4 Ecodiesel 3.92 axles

The Truth is More Important Than the Facts
dkottum is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Stainless steel corrosion Dave-O Stoves, Ovens & Microwaves 21 04-05-2014 06:30 PM
How did you get into Airstreams & Airstreaming? 83Excella Our Community 102 03-15-2009 09:48 AM
Airstreams in winter?? Curtis-79MH Airstream Motorhome Forums 6 03-27-2006 12:58 PM
Black water problems Rob Waste Systems, Tanks & Totes 3 08-31-2002 07:34 PM
Ralph Lauren Vintage Airstreams ($150,000) Andy R General Interior Topics 0 02-22-2002 12:06 AM


Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by



Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:43 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.