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07-30-2015, 09:34 AM
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#2201
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"Cloudsplitter"
2003 25' Classic
Houstatlantavegas
, Malebolgia
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 19,977
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......."Make one wonder what they are using to cause this."
If your referencing the Filiform corrosion.....it's the pre-coated Alcoa aluminum sheet that is compromised at every cut edge during the Airstream manufacturing process.
It's not a new concern, so I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for a response.
Bob
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07-30-2015, 05:03 PM
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#2202
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3 Rivet Member
2013 25' FB International
Liberty Corner
, New Jersey
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS
......."Make one wonder what they are using to cause this."
If your referencing the Filiform corrosion.....it's the pre-coated Alcoa aluminum sheet that is compromised at every cut edge during the Airstream manufacturing process.
It's not a new concern, so I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for a response.
Bob
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While the design of an AS may be timeless, manufacturing processes are not. Then when you change the material input so much, the manufacturing process certainly must change. I believe GM and Ford use to believe in the 60s to 90s that nothing needed to be done to their manufacturing practices. Then the new entries from other countries started to move quality forward. So lets say the trailer industry is at least 50 years behind the auto industry, we might hope for a new entry to appear soon that will have both style and quality.
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07-30-2015, 07:45 PM
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#2203
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Overland Adventurer
1991 34' Excella
2009 34' Panamerica
Telluride
, Colorado
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 2,476
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I've been through the factory many times during many generations of build. Never once have I seen an Alcoa name on any sheet or coil of aluminum product on the premesis.
Not making any claims but I have always been doubtful!
Usually a materials manufacturer is plenty proud of their goods and has their name plastered all over!
The white film currently used has absolutely no marking whatsoever!
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07-30-2015, 09:01 PM
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#2204
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Slympicins
2015 27' Flying Cloud
Sevierville
, Tennessee
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 80
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Years ago the vehicle manufacturers realized corrosion was a problem and they redesigned the way the coated and painted their vehicles. As a result...less rust and corrosion. AS on the other hand has not been listening to its customers about this issue and try to resolve it. As far as ALCOA supplying the materials to AS, it would not surprise me at all if these materials were shipped from China. Ever hear about Chinese drywall issues? Nightmare!!!! Millions of dollars of damage to homes across the country. Again, if an aluminum fishing boat does not have issues with filiform after years of being in and out of fresh water (rain as well in South Florida) why does an AS? They obviously know the areas where they appear are the cuts and rivet holes, why then did they not change something. Maybe Thor just is more concerned about quantity (money) than quality.
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07-31-2015, 04:50 AM
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#2205
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"Cloudsplitter"
2003 25' Classic
Houstatlantavegas
, Malebolgia
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 19,977
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slympicins
Years ago the vehicle manufacturers realized corrosion was a problem and they redesigned the way the coated and painted their vehicles. As a result...less rust and corrosion. AS on the other hand has not been listening to its customers about this issue and try to resolve it. As far as ALCOA supplying the materials to AS, it would not surprise me at all if these materials were shipped from China. Ever hear about Chinese drywall issues? Nightmare!!!! Millions of dollars of damage to homes across the country. Again, if an aluminum fishing boat does not have issues with filiform after years of being in and out of fresh water (rain as well in South Florida) why does an AS? They obviously know the areas where they appear are the cuts and rivet holes, why then did they not change something. Maybe Thor just is more concerned about quantity (money) than quality.
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.....your fishing boat is not coated aluminum.
.....if China is in PA, then yes, that's where the aluminum comes from.
Bob
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07-31-2015, 05:13 AM
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#2206
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Site Team
2009 25' FB International
2018 27' Globetrotter
Tavares
, Florida
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,654
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Howard L.
It does, but see the quote below and the rest of Bob's link above about corrosion.
((Filiform corrosion is minimized by careful surface preparation prior to coating, by the use of coatings that are resistant to this form of corrosion (see above), and by careful inspection of coatings to insure that holidays, or holes, in the coating are minimized.))
Problem is that even though our Alcoa baked on clear coat stops oxidation and corrosion of the AL, it also provides a path for filiform if it is scratched, damaged or missing. That is why you follow owner and Johnson Ctr. ideas here to inspect your trailer regularly and stay ahead of the problem. In short, treat any small area found with corrosion x, then reseal with a touch up of clearcoat. I still also recommend a full touch up of all exposed aluminum panel edges with Clearcoat. (Especially important with a new trailer--edges and rivet holes are not coated since AS cutting, forming, and drilling are done after Alcoa clearcoating).
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So clearcoat will adhere to areas that have just been treated with Corrosion X? Would applying clearcoat over areas of filiform element the need to apply Corrosion X later?
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07-31-2015, 05:27 AM
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#2207
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"Cloudsplitter"
2003 25' Classic
Houstatlantavegas
, Malebolgia
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 19,977
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I would only apply clear coat to absolutely clean/dry aluminum. (remove all traces of the filiform tracks)
I use mineral spirits or 3m prep solvent.
IMHO.....A non-compromised clear application will not need treatment, I don't see a need to treat areas that I have re-coated.
Fact is, I have never used the Beo or the X.
Most filiform will appear in the first 5 years of of use, I have not had any real breakouts for quite awhile.
Bob
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07-31-2015, 05:51 AM
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#2208
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3 Rivet Member
2007 23' Safari SE
ROSWELL
, Georgia
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 123
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Years ago,many proposed a class-action suit for A/S denial of Filiform or spiderweb corrosion.Did that ever progress? My sheltered 07 Safari has webs all over and even the wheels.I suspect it is a coating issue,but,of all the posts I've read,no one seems certain.Could it be an electrolysis issue?Mine has webs around the rivets,seams,as well as any penetrations.I have not seen this type of corrosion on other types of aluminum trailers ,just A/S.
__________________
Mike & Nancy Gore WBCCI #2914 S E Camping Unit 012 Roswell,Ga.
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07-31-2015, 10:07 AM
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#2209
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3 Rivet Member
2013 25' FB International
Liberty Corner
, New Jersey
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS
I would only apply clear coat to absolutely clean/dry aluminum. (remove all traces of the filiform tracks)
I use mineral spirits or 3m prep solvent.
IMHO.....A non-compromised clear application will not need treatment, I don't see a need to treat areas that I have re-coated.
Fact is, I have never used the Beo or the X.
Most filiform will appear in the first 5 years of of use, I have not had any real breakouts for quite awhile.
Bob
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This is where it gets confusing. I believe that some of the guidance from Airstream is to treat with corrosionX then the organic layer. I was trying that out on a couple pieces of their coated aluminum that I purchased and did not like the oily film and could not see the organic would either.
This is something that Alcoa would most likely have the best subject matter experts. I suspect that if you reached out to them, they would pass you to Airstream just as I am sure Airstream would push you off to Alcoa. I see that on another thread someone was given cleaning and care guidance from them ( http://www.airforums.com/forums/f441...oat-18760.html)
I have used the pen from the Airstream store. It works fine but leaves a thick coating that I find to be unsightly. How do you apply the organic coating without it leaving a thick layer? Also, does mineral spirits leave a residue? Would iso. alcohol work better?
Pat
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08-01-2015, 10:35 PM
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#2210
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Rivet Master
2012 30' Flying Cloud
San Antonio
, Texas
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 681
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hans627
So clearcoat will adhere to areas that have just been treated with Corrosion X? Would applying clearcoat over areas of filiform element the need to apply Corrosion X later?
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I just Answered this, but don't see the post. So forgive if it shows up twice. But the short story is: you can treat the filiform with corrosion X. Then wipe that off with a dry cotton cloth--no solvent. Then reseal the area with a polymer clear coat like Nyalic. It will adhere just fine to the surface despite what is probably a microscopic amount of corrosion x still there. I can not recommend an enamel, lacquer or acrylic clear coat over a residue like that, but the polymer seals and adheres fine.
I use a needle to scratch the filiform line first, then apply C X, wipe with dry cloth, then spray or small brush the Nyalic on. I have a number of 3 year old repairs like this. Filiform stopped and Nyalic coat looks as it did when applied. As to the question of just re-clearcoating without the corrosion x, all I know is that if you get even a microscopic amount of C X into the filiform and then seal it there, you are done with that problem area.
Sent from my iPad using Airstream Forums
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08-01-2015, 11:10 PM
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#2211
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Rivet Master
2012 25' Flying Cloud
Battle Lake
, Minnesota
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,714
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We began treating our Airstream shell rivets and edges regularly with CorrosionX, and the underbody steel with Boeshield T9 the day we brought it home new. There is no corrosion or rust anywhere on or under the Airstream approaching four years.
I will qualify this by saying we never tow it on winter salted roads or park it at the salt air environment of the coasts. If we did the result may be different, but most probably not nearly as severe as an untreated Airstream.
__________________
Doug and Cheryl
2012 FC RB, Michelin 16, ProPride 1400
2016 Ram 1500 Laramie Crew Cab 4X4 Ecodiesel 3.92 axles
The Truth is More Important Than the Facts
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08-02-2015, 05:05 AM
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#2212
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"Cloudsplitter"
2003 25' Classic
Houstatlantavegas
, Malebolgia
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 19,977
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08-02-2015, 09:52 AM
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#2213
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1 Rivet Member
2009 25' FB Flying Cloud
OLD ORCHARD BEACH
, Maine
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 12
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I have a 2009 25' FC. Never seen any kind winter (salt) kept in a garage when not in use. Tail lights and all seams have the condition that you are describing. Gordy
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08-02-2015, 10:08 PM
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#2214
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Rivet Master
2012 30' Flying Cloud
San Antonio
, Texas
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 681
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gordymurphy4
I have a 2009 25' FC. Never seen any kind winter (salt) kept in a garage when not in use. Tail lights and all seams have the condition that you are describing. Gordy
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Gordy, your cast aluminum pieces, such as tail light housings, door hinges, entry handle, are easy to fix. Just tape off and remove old clear coat with fine wet/dry sandpaper (1000 grit, etc) then re-clear coat with spray or brush. There are discussions on the process back in this thread.
Howard
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08-03-2015, 02:03 PM
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#2215
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Master of Universe
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Grand Junction
, Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 12,694
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikesSE
Years ago,many proposed a class-action suit for A/S denial of Filiform or spiderweb corrosion.Did that ever progress?
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I doubt it. Class actions are difficult to do and you need a large number of plaintiffs. About a decade ago Congress made it even more difficult to file a class action since large corporations don't like to be sued and members of Congress love campaign contributions.
I think if one had been tried, we would know about it.
Gene
__________________
Gene
The Airstream is sold; a 2016 Nash 24M replaced it.
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08-04-2015, 05:13 AM
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#2216
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Rivet Master
2008 27' Safari FB SE
Pfafftown
, North Carolina
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 918
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gene
I doubt it. Class actions are difficult to do and you need a large number of plaintiffs. About a decade ago Congress made it even more difficult to file a class action since large corporations don't like to be sued and members of Congress love campaign contributions.
I think if one had been tried, we would know about it.
Gene
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Too few plaintiffs = low potential award = insufficient potential payout to interest the tort lawyers. For a capable tort attorney it is more profitable to spend hours on a case involving tens of thousands of victims suffering from illness or significant financial loss than suing an RV manufacturer for a cosmetic issue that may to some people be unattractive aesthetically but doesn't impair the performance of the product or its structural integrity.
Thor may be the largest RV manufacturer in the US, but its pockets are shallow compared to big pharma, big tobacco, chemical companies, or Wall Street investment firms. The big tort attorneys are as greedy as the big corporations and chase the big money, not the little money.
__________________
Chuck
Airstream - 2008 Safari 27FB SE (Sweet Pea)
TV - 2022 Ford F350 King Ranch, 6.7 Diesel, 4X4 (Big Red)
WBCCI 3823 - Unit 12 | AIR 48265
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08-05-2015, 07:48 AM
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#2217
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Rivet Master
2014 31' Classic
2015 23' International
2013 25' FB International
Apache Junction
, Arizona
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 6,214
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That money explanation reason above is why quality is being engineered out of many of the products today. There is no way to penalize the inferior products other than by not buying it in the first place.
__________________
WBCCI Life Member 5123, AIR 70341, 4CU, WD9EMC
TV - 2012 Dodge 2500 4x4 Cummins HO, automatic, Centramatics, Kelderman level ride airbag suspension, bed shell
2014 31' Classic w/ twin beds, 50 amp service, 1000 watt solar system, Centramatics, Tuson TPMS, 12" disc brakes, 16" tires & wheels
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08-05-2015, 11:34 AM
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#2218
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Rivet Master
Currently Looking...
Mantua
, Ohio
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,062
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Well hell, if we didn't buy one we couldn't post our complaints on the forum!
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08-14-2015, 07:32 PM
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#2219
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Master of Universe
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Grand Junction
, Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 12,694
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We were talking to Ken (Au&Ag) a few days ago and he essentially said the same thing—he replaced a broken part and there were two parts available to replace it. One was cheap and that's what Airstream used. The other was better quality and that was what he used. He has a beautiful Classic and we all know what they cost, but they still use cheap stuff. Imagine if you bought a Porsche 911—and they put the cheapest tires on it, the seats were made of the thin cloth, the foam was low quality and the engine had one cylinder and went to 60 mph in 30 seconds downhill. A fully tricked out 911 costs a little more than a big Classic.
I've been replacing things for 8 years and the problems have settled down. Nothing I've fixed has failed even though I'm not a "professional". Pretty sad comment on Airstream workmanship. When people ask us about ours, I try not to run it down, but I have to say "it tows well, the basic design is good but you have to watch for front or rear end sag, don't buy one with OSB subfloors, you need a lot of tools and know how to use them, carry extra parts, read everything you can on the Forum and don't expect the quality you are paying for, but I guess it is better than some other RV's". We talked to a couple with another Thor product—a Denali—and they said it was a year old and falling apart already. They live in it and travel for his job and want to get rid of it. I try to be honest about the good things, but the bad things are what they hear. So long as they sell every one they make, nothing will change.
Gene
__________________
Gene
The Airstream is sold; a 2016 Nash 24M replaced it.
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08-14-2015, 07:52 PM
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#2220
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Rivet Master
Currently Looking...
Currently Looking...
Currently Looking...
2022 Atlas
Homosassa
, Florida
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 729
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I have a friend who just traded motor homes (he detests the word coach) with a dual rear axle. It was a high end Newmar. He said they took him for a ride in a $1.2M Prevost. He said they're all the same, when you go around a curve or hit a bump, you hear a rattle or clunk until you get things sorted out. I'm not excusing Airstream quality but just noting that issues seem to be prevalent in the RV industry. Someone mentioned in a previous post they are way behind automobiles in build quality and I believe that we will not see notable quality improvement until there is competition (domestic or foreign) who makes a higher quality product and consumers switch "brands". My $.02
Jim
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