2008 model year quality....

[ramblin rose]

Originally Posted by millvalleyca

Hey Ramblin
I was wondering if you ever got your trailer dry free!
Glad Toscano was able to fix the problerm....that's where we bought our trailer from.
Did anyone pay for your soaked bed?
Hope to see you on the road!
Dennis

We thought that the second guys had fixed it, until the rains really came this year. The bed actually dried out just fine, so no harm there - that leak was the worst and was caused by the King Dome installation, and was fixed by the second dealer (you know who that was).

We'll be dragging it up to the Sierras for the summer, but we are definitely looking forward to staying dry next winter.

[wayner61]

Sorry in advance for the LOOONG post.... Lot's of silly detail below

Originally Posted by wayner61

Hi All -

We picked up our new 27FB last Friday. Took it out this weekend for a shake-down trip to ensure that everything was working as expected and to prepare a list for any issues with the overall build so the dealer can take care of them. The unit was manufactured in October of '07 and likely had been on the dealer lot since then.

Issues identified / repaired during the walk-through -

One burned out light bulb in the reading lamp above the dining table.

Issues identified / repaired during our first weekend trip -

1. Missing one of the support arms under the bed. Attachment hardware is there so I think the dealer may have "borrowed" it for a repair on another unit and forgot to replace it. I will have them order me one or "borrow" one from another stock unit.

2. Top hinge on one of the Kitchen sink cabinet doors had one loose screw. Three turns with a screwdriver and it was secure.

3. Missing one of the grommets on the stove top.

4. Found a "blob" of caulking that leaked out from the bottom window frame onto the glass in the kitchen area. Trimmed with a razor blade.

5. One rivet on the ceiling of the bedroom interior skin really looks out of place. It is in one of the pieces coming up from the side that is overlapped by the main ceiling piece where the fan is installed. About a quarter of a rivet head is peeking out under the overlap. My guess is that it should have been installed under the overlap so it isn't visible. It looks like it would be a real bear to repair or re-do, so I think I will live with it. Evidence that humans installed that panel, not a robot.

6. Rumbles and unwanted noise in the stereo system that is well documented in a couple of threads. I will pursue those solutions to that issue.

All other exterior and interior trim, rivets, etc... seem to be fine with the single exception noted above. All other systems seemed to work fine. With the nice TX summer weather, I didn't really test the furnace, but it did come on and blow warm air. No other issues noted. Overall - I am very pleased. With the exception of the stereo noise and the caulking, none of the issues seems to be "factory" related, but who knows? I probably could have caught them during the walk-through, but I was focused more on the "bigger" things. In looking through the thread, it appears I got one built on a "good" week. I will keep digging around and will post anything else that pops up over the next month or so.

Well -- It took a while, but I thought I would provide an update on our unit now that we have had it for a little while.

Right after I posted this, I spoke with the selling dealer about getting the support arm replaced as well as getting a grommet for the range top grate. They assured me they would get the parts ordered and call me when I could pick them up. Several weeks later, I called and found that they no longer had a dealer relationship with airstream The fact that this dealer was local and close to me was the single deciding factor in purchasing from them. Overall, I had better pricing from Colonial in NJ and had talked to Gene at Airstream of Arkansas. Silly, silly me. I thought I should support the local guys. They must have known they were getting out of the business when they sold me the unit. They just decided not to share that bit of info with me. They even went so far as to tell me how long they had been selling A/S, how much they were into the product, Top 10 dealer (blatent lie) and so on...

Since neither of these things were "show stoppers", I decided to just keep using the trailer for a while to see if anything that needed to be repaired would pop up. Once I got a few things going that needed to be taken care of, I would take it someplace where they would actually do the warranty work.

I went ahead and fixed the stereo rumbling and wiring myself. I documented what I did in the thread "using the TV as a center chanel speaker".

After using the trailer pretty heavily (at least for us weekend warrior types) all summer, fall and what passed for winter here in TX, I had a couple of other things that needed fixing that weren't on my original list.

* Air conditioning compressor would "hang" on occasion, still running after the fan shut off. Not frequently, but once in a while is once in while too much. Resolved temporarily by always running the fan in manual mode instead of auto when using the heat pump or AC

* Trim piece on pull-out portion of the sofa kept getting loose. Every screw ended up being stripped. Unable to repair it myself, so we just quit using the pull-out piece.

* The edge trim on the pantry wall slipped leaving a raw edge near the ceiling in the kitchen.

* The latch on the propane cover was rusted pretty badly. Oiling it didn't help the functioning. Sticks and is hard to open at times.

* Outlet in the bathroom started slipping and going "crooked" Screws couldn't be tightened.

* The microwave control panel quit working. Could not set the clock or do timed cooking. The microwave still worked, but functionality was restricted.

*The accordion door in the hall between the kitchen and bath has a warped leading edge causing it to stick out slightly at the bottom.

* A seven hour trip with 5 hours of driving in the rain revealed at least a couple of leaks. The front compartment door behind the propane tanks was leaking a little. Not enough to get the floor "wet", but some moisture was getting past the seals. A more serious issue was somewhere in the area of the fridge. There was a puddle on the floor and water in the little storage cubby beneath the fridge. No water on any of the upolstry, carpet or bedding. Nothing in the roadside closet got wet.

All in all, not a ton of issues, but a few things I really wanted to get taken care of. In addition, much to the detriment of my bank account, I have spent a bunch of time looking through this message board and found several upgrades that I wanted to have performed. After reading through many reviews of dealer and service experiences as well as pinging a few folks privately for honest feedback, I decided to take my trailer to Roger Williams Airstream in Weatherford, TX.

I called there and spoke to the new service manager, Robert Haberzettle. I told him what I wanted to get done and we scheduled an appointment time for me to drop off the trailer. He asked me for some photos of issues that I was concerned about as well as a list of the upgrades I wanted. We agreed on the pricing for the upgrades and I promised to drop off the trailer on the Monday after our spring break trip to the coast.

The drop off was very smooth. We went over the stuff I wanted done agian. He confirmed my contact info again and promissed to stay in touch. In short - A very professional outfit. A real pleasure to do business with.

We talked a couple of times throughout the next couple of weeks while work was being done and parts were being shipped in. Airstream declined to warrant the door problem. Robert explained what they had told him. While I disagreed with the decision, I can't really fault them too much. I posted the question about the door on this board and found several others who had the same issue and it wasn't bothering them. Maybe I am just being too picky.

As they were getting closer to wrapping everything up, Robert called to schedule the pickup. I went over there after work last Friday to pick up the trailer.

Denver - the technician - had done a very thorough job and had fixed everything to my satisfaction.

They installed the bed prop and missing stove grommet and replaced the microwave.

Larger screws, and more of them, were installed in the trim piece on the sofa pull-out.

Trim on wall for pantry was pulled back into place and secured.

New road side and rear awnings were installed. I absolutely LOVE them!

New stainless steel furnace door, water heater door and stove vent were installed.

New style airbox for the AC unit installed. I REALLY like this. This unit fits the ceiling much better, has side venting as well as fore and aft. Overall, much more contemporary looking.

New curved edge steps installed. Proabably the silliest thing I had done, but I liked the way the curve echoes the lines of the trailer. These are the steps they are using on the flying cloud line.

New propane cover latch and striker installed. The hardware looks like stainless steel instead of the chrome on the old one. Not sure at this point.

New bathroom plug installed with some additonal support behind it to keep it from moving around.

AC problem turned out to be a faulty wire coming from the thermostat. The rest of the AC diagnostics turned out fine.

The seal on the front compartment was re-worked and the latches adjusted to fix that leak.

I had them perform Seal Tech leak testing (not covered by waranty) to see if they could find any leaks. During that testing, they found the source of the leak around the fridge. Water was coming in around a stripped out screw in the deflector shield on the roof-top fridge vent. They also found a small leak around one of the vent stacks for the bathroom. Denver also said he added a little Acryl-R (sp??) to one of the seams near the roof. He also adjusted most of the window latches to get a better seal. During recent rains, I have not found any evedence of any leaking at all.

Overall, I could not be happier with the outcome. The guys at Roger Williams did a great job, were thorough and professional in all communications with me and met all of their commitments as well as my (rather high) expectations.

I remain very happy overall with the trailer and still have a very positive feeling about the overall build quality. Most of the problems have been very minor and easy to correct. I'm not happy at all with the selling dealer, but since they now seem to be exclusively selling Yamaha motorcycles, no potential Airstreamers will have to put up with them.

Feel free to PM me if you have any questions at all.

Wayne

[Snowey BC]

Update on post 104.
Since we live 2000 Km away from the dealership, issues that we discovered on our way home had to wait. We have a May apt. and hopefully they can work on the door. DH has read all the posts, and wants them to fix it. The square AC shroud promptly cracked with the first bump, DH installed rubber pads to break the shock, but we want a new cover, the AC fan blade rubs somewhere, they might as well fix that while up there. We need an update on how to use the heater, we never figured it out. We are on the Wet coast and the front window leak was easily fixed with caulking no other leaks detected, and with the rainfall here believe me we would notice. It's been a long winter, we are looking forward to our May trip. The A/S was lucky enough to fit in a friends garage for the winter, all the fabric peices at our home, clean and waiting to be popped into position. I look forward to posting again after our apt. to let you know how the service was, so far they have been unable to recieve our fax's with pic's attached!!

Jackie

[bolerama]

I started a thread on this topic, but Silvertwinkie suggested I post here with other 2008 issues. Our Airstream (23D CCD) survived its first winter in Saskatchewan (north of N. Dakota and Montana). When we checked on it during the winter, we noticed the loose-lay vinyl floor buckling. We expected this and were impressed that it didn't crack as some cheaper floors do. The weather has finally warmed up and we expected it to lay down by now. We've been pushing it to the sides and stepping straight on it trying to encourage it to slip back under the furniture, but it hasn't budged. This seems to be common with new Airstreams up here. What can we do to promote its flattening? Our neighbours also a 2008 (25 ft FB Safari) and they have the same trouble. The dealer said it should go down. I have pictures of my unit, but I'll try to get some of my neighbours' unit if it helps. The dealer here is new and I doubt has dealt with many warranty issues. This seems like a minor issue, and I'd be afraid of having the furniture lifted just to set the floor down again.

[cosmotini]

Ouch!

I have the same vinyl in my 2008 and it's not doing that. Just came back from using this weekend. I'd make a trip to the dealer - or better yet - the factory for that repair. Any ideas as to what caused it? Freeze-thaw ?

[terryg]

Okay, I've had my 2008 Classic 25' FB since Sept. 08 and I have yet to use it without a problem cropping up. Here's my list so far:
1) The Actibrake unit started "acting" up. It was very slow to release hyd. pressure which resulting in the brakes dragging. The dealer replaced the Actibrake unit and the brakes work great.
2) Numerous water line leaks from poorly assembled compression ring fittings. Again, fixed by the dealer and back on the road.
3) Shower leaked like a sieve. Dealer caulked around door trim and base of shower door. No more leaky shower.
4) Electric jack quit working. Dealer removed paint from screws and bolts on hitch jack assembly, thus properly grounding the jack to the frame. Jack now works great.
5) Bathroom sink drains VERY slowly. Dealer says they all do that on this model due to a design flaw, i.e., poor drain line venting.
6) Last issue (still unresolved), my 15,000 BTU Duo-Therm Heat Pump doesn't work. The compressor trips the 20A A/C CB everytime it tries to start. My A/S has been at the dealer's place for the last two weeks while they continue to order parts (bigger and bigger capacitors).

Terry

[Gene]

Since my last post on this thread long, long ago, many more problems have occurred—well over 20 since last September. A lot got fixed at Jackson Center almost 2 months ago. We won't go to the Denver dealer. Our experience there was very bad, and though this thread isn't about dealers, poor dealer quality is part of the problem. It takes too much time to list all our quality issues and I've done so elsewhere. In reading old threads that died years ago, I've learned QC has been a big issue for some time and yet JC has been unresponsive. There seems to be little communication between the factory and the repair shop there, so the factory goes without feedback. This is not the way a modern industrial company should operate.

Gene

[dlb435]

My first Airstream was an old 1972 23 foot Safari. It was pretty rough when we got it. It ended up fixing everything in the trailer except the AC, that worked from day one and never failed. What made it worth it was the basic build quality of the trailer. Then the trailer was broken into and ruined.
I have just replaced it with a 2008 Safari Sport. I can say that the quality of the floors and laminants are not as good as the 72 stuff. Still, I have tried to buy laminant and the 72 quality materials are just not available anymore. Little things like the bathroom vent fan, over the stove fan and some extra storage has also been eliminated. The body construction is good, but I found that the 72 was just a little better.
I had the same problem with the microwave as noted above, but that was easy to fix. The only other problem I have had is the laminant getting pulled at the edges. I finally just gave up and capped the edges with aluminum. (the 72 had most edges finished with metal trim to start with) When compared to other trailers in this size/price/weight range, the Airstream is still great value for the money. I have some friends with SOB and they are impressed with the quality of the Airstream. I really have nothing to campare it to other than my old 72.
While I do like my new Safari, I wish it had been built to the same level of trim and finish as my old Safari. Then again, I'm sure not complaining about little extras like a walk in shower, microwave and digital TV. Maybe Airstream will hear us and try to step up the quality a couple of notches.

[Dismayed]

You folks have convinced me that I should buy a vintage AS.

[Silvertwinkie]

Originally Posted by dlb435

I have just replaced it with a 2008 Safari Sport. I can say that the quality of the floors and laminants are not as good as the 72 stuff. Still, I have tried to buy laminant and the 72 quality materials are just not available anymore. Little things like the bathroom vent fan, over the stove fan and some extra storage has also been eliminated. The body construction is good, but I found that the 72 was just a little better.

Having just got back from the midwest rally, I found what you say very true. Just in looking at the vintage units (70s and 80s) there are far more rivets on the exterior than on the newer ones. Even the storage doors have 2 to 3x the rivets holding it in than my 2004. I like my 04 very much, but it is somewhat disappointing when you read the same issues over and over again that seem to traverse model year after model year. I also have to say that I remain unimpressed with the quality control at Jackson Center. I was not pleased with it in 2003, 2004 seemed marginally better, yet still, even today, folks are still having the same issues they had back in 2003 and 2004. I fully realize these are moving houses and with that some level of problems will and do come up. It just seems to me though that for th prices paid, that a fair number of the things talked about could be solved by the engineering dept, but to be honest, there are times I also think there is no real engineering dept.

Last week or so, I got a recall notice saying my cast alum LED tail lights did not meet DOT specs and that Airstream had to come up with a solution. That solution was to stick 3M reflective tape (about 2" x 2") just above the bumper, in line with the tail lights for better visibility. I would have thought a redesigned lens would have been a more proper fix, but again, I am no engineer, but I am a customer and I don't want to stick reflective tape all over the back end of my Airstream. I paid $40k for this. I expect a $40k fix, not some cheap tape to cover someone's behind. If I wanted to go the cheap route, I would have bought an SOB and expected to have to do things like stick tape on the back body of my trailer.

I think it just really comes down to $$$. What is the lowest they can spend and the most they can make. That makes sense, but long term, being dollar wise and penny foolish only frustrates customers and creates lost customers.

[jmallgood]

Originally Posted by wheel interested

DH has the same complaint. I was thinking of trying glueing magnets to the inside of the lids and placing another on the wall. I have no idea if that would work, possibly be too weak to hold or so strong as to grab everything metal in the bathroom and he's really gonna have a fit when I put my fluffy cover on!

I don't think AS ever considered males would use the toilets for urination. This is a camping trailer, furgawdsakes, and you should use the trees and bushes like the rest of us. No wonder your black water tanks fill up so fast. AS needs to update their owners' manual to say if you are going to use their toilet for this purpose, you need to sit down like the ladies.

[lsinclair]

Gene sums it up well in post #167. AS has priority issues; they're too focused on the bottom line utilizing tight purse strings to control warranty expenses while quality becomes secondary. It can be rightly said other companies are guilty also. True, but we bought AS.

In post #166, Terry indicates, among other things, the slow bathroom sink drain. I encountered this issue after having a link under the bath sink addressed by the dealer (no issue prior to this). Now I have a slow drain and still have a leak. More on this later as I intend to take care of this myself. Customer Service = a few hits with numerous misses (becoming a thing of the past). LS

[Gene]

Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie

Last week or so, I got a recall notice saying my cast alum LED tail lights did not meet DOT specs and that Airstream had to come up with a solution. That solution was to stick 3M reflective tape (about 2" x 2") just above the bumper, in line with the tail lights for better visibility. I would have thought a redesigned lens would have been a more proper fix, but again, I am no engineer, but I am a customer and I don't want to stick reflective tape all over the back end of my Airstream. I paid $40k for this. I expect a $40k fix, not some cheap tape to cover someone's behind.

I haven't received a recall notice and not everyone will. A friend sent me this:

"Airstream is recalling 2,052 MY 2002-2009 Bambi, International, Safari, 75th Anniversary, DWR, and Ocean Breeze travel trailers for failing to comply with the requirements of Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard No. 108, “Lamps, Reflective Devices, and Associated Equipment.” The travel trailers were built without rear reflex reflectors. Inadequate lighting could reduce visibility of vehicle increase the potential for a crash. Airstream will send dealers separate reflectors to the affected customers and dealers along with instructions for proper installation. Customers will have the option of installing the reflectors or taking the travel trailer to the nearest Airstream certified dealers. This will be done free of charge. The recall began on May 15, 2009. Owners may contact Airstream at 1-937-596-6849."

I don't know where he saw it. They made more than 2,052 trailers during the period, so apparently not all are illegal. I haven't seen this elsewhere on the Forum, so I doubt many people have gotten the notice. Reflectors are cheap and available at auto parts stores, so presumably that could be a marginally more attractive solution.

Gene

[Silvertwinkie]

Anyone that has cast alum LED tail lights oval for sure and even possibly the round ones too will be effected by this recall.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f142...9-a-51800.html

[Gene]

Thanks for the link Eric.

I have what I call double oval LED tail lights and I haven't gotten a recall notice. Not knowing what is cast aluminum (my school didn't have the foundry classes option) and what is not, I can't say how they're made. Their are no rear facing reflectors on our Safari, but there are side mounted ones just before the back end. If reflectors are required to supplement lamps, ours certainly doesn't have them unless the tail light lens reflects.

From 2002 to 2009, more than 10,000 trailer must have been made, but only 2,052 are said to be out of compliance.

When are the high brake lights going to be required on trailers? Maybe a strobe light on the roof too.

Gene

[Silvertwinkie]

I have this kind and I was recalled, they are the cast alum tail lights:

Colonial Airstream NJ - 2009 Airstream Flying Cloud 27' FB

Take a look at the pic of the rear of the trailer.


I don't know if they have changed the lens since the recall was made. I do have side red reflectors, but I also have a rearward facing reflector off the bumper. It is small, but it is there and totally rearward facing.

You can see a pic of what I have here located by the lower rear banana wrap:

Colonial Airstream NJ - 2009 Airstream Flying Cloud 25' FB



You can tell what they are starting to do in production here by looking at the back of this DWR 16 footer:

Colonial Airstream NJ - 2009 Airstream International Signature DWR 16' Bambi

I looked up on the NSTSA website and they say 2,052 units.

[ROBERTSUNRUS]

Hi, Gene. The cast aluminum tail lights referrs to the housing that the oval lights are mounted on. Also in this first picture, are the reflectors near the rear bumper, one facing to the side and the other facing to the rear. These reflectors are very small and can be blocked by the rear bumper depending on angle and closeness to trailer. I didn't receive a recall notice yet either.

[terryg]

Originally Posted by terryg

Okay, I've had my 2008 Classic 25' FB since Sept. 08 and I have yet to use it without a problem cropping up. Here's my list so far:
1) The Actibrake unit started "acting" up. It was very slow to release hyd. pressure which resulting in the brakes dragging. The dealer replaced the Actibrake unit and the brakes work great.
2) Numerous water line leaks from poorly assembled compression ring fittings. Again, fixed by the dealer and back on the road.
3) Shower leaked like a sieve. Dealer caulked around door trim and base of shower door. No more leaky shower.
4) Electric jack quit working. Dealer removed paint from screws and bolts on hitch jack assembly, thus properly grounding the jack to the frame. Jack now works great.
5) Bathroom sink drains VERY slowly. Dealer says they all do that on this model due to a design flaw, i.e., poor drain line venting.
6) Last issue (still unresolved), my 15,000 BTU Duo-Therm Heat Pump doesn't work. The compressor trips the 20A A/C CB everytime it tries to start. My A/S has been at the dealer's place for the last two weeks while they continue to order parts (bigger and bigger capacitors).

Terry

Update: Dealer is replacing my A/C with a new unit. Looks like I'll be out of commission for another two weeks. Who do you blame when you buy a trailer with a crap Duo-Therm A/C and a bad Actibrake unit? My trailer has spent more time in the shop than on the road since I bought it. Okay, I'm finished venting...I still like Airstreams

Terry

[Gene]

Bob, the back of our Safari looks exactly like yours (except for the blue stripes and window). The small rear facing reflectors on the side of the trailer have questionable value. My guess is that some trailers have a reflector built into the tail light lens and some don't.

[FordTruck]

I know I posted early in this thread but i've got some pretty serious updated information that makes wife and I think about giving this TT back to Airstream.
We're finishing up a 3 week trip, starting in VA, up to Amish country in PA, to the Glass factories in WV, the Shaker village in Mt. Pleasant KY and on to Okoboji IA.
Problems:
1. Storage Cabinet over the dinette has pulled away from the trailer. Had to stop at AS dealer in Davenport IA for emergency repair. They were very good and made it stable so it won't fall on us but it needs to be completely removed and re-installed
2. Static in the FM radio whenever ceiling lights are on
3. Fantastic fan over dinette still leaks
4. Leak in skylight between outer cover and inner liner
5. Latch on Microwave drawer in pantry not holding, causing all four feet on the microwave to break off
6. Refrig will run on shore power and will run on LP if we don't move the trailer. When we have the LP on and are travelling, it goes out and won't restart. Temp in Fridge gets higher and higher. Not good for the food we're carrying
7. Black tank smell drawn into TT when Fantastic fan is on
8. Doors aren't aligned to they fit correctly.
9. Interior rivets have popped.

These are in addition to the multitude of problems we've already had fixed during two trips back to the dealer where we bought this. I'm tempted to call it a POS trailer but I'm not quite that angry, YET.