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Old 12-29-2008, 02:21 PM   #155
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For rather obvious reasons I don't have the antipathy towards lawyers other people have. Nonetheless, I would rather not have to pay for one just like I don't like to pay someone to change my oil. But sometimes hiring a lawyer is the only way to get someone's attention.

Gene-
Did I tell you what a lawyer friend of mine told me? He said that there were only two real lawyer jokes---the rest of the stories were true!

Anyway, your advice was very good. I gave back a '96 Ford F250 4X4 which I bought new in '95. It was an extended cab 460 c.i. 5 speed that would shudder violently when easing off the gas on depressing the clutch pedal. The official Ford policy was either: "they all do it" or "we were unable to replicate the problem". A trip up the interstate w/ the service manager w/ an identically equipped truck demonstrated that they, in fact, did not all do it. Another trip up the interstate w/ same manager in my truck showed that I could replicate the problem every time.

After four trips to the dealership, I contacted the zone office. Same runaround, same quantities of male bovine waste. Next stop was the factory and, oddly enough, more of the same. After three months, I bit the bullet and hired a lawyer w/ this type of experience. A couple of his letters, three more months, and some equitable phone calls, they told me to come in and pick up my new truck. They even moved the aftermarket running boards, trailer hitch assembly, and re-tinted the windows on the new truck.

The moral of the story is that you have to jump through the hoops and follow the manufacturer's guidelines to get this done. If you don't follow the rules, document every call and letter,and threaten bodily harm, they've won. Take pictures and I mean a lot of them!

The second moral of the story is that I have not bought a new American vehicle since November, 1995. I've bought many new imports but no American cars. I don't think they cared--do you suppose they care now?

I have a rough idea what you guys (and girls-sorry!) are paying for the late model or new Airstreams and you are taking it in the shorts w/ this type of treatment. I always vote w/ my feet. It is hard to complain about the condition of a 50 year old trailer w/ no warranty.

Best of luck to all of you fighting the uphill battle!
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Old 01-25-2009, 05:26 PM   #156
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2008 23' International CCD
golden , Colorado
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My issues

Well I may have gotten off lucky compared to you all, but here's my list:
1. No owner's manual. Fortunately someone emailed me the link.
2. Subwoofer wierd noise issue.
3. LP Detector is hooked up, but no lights and the test button doesn't work. Maybe they unplugged it so it didn't beep randomly.
4. Had some cabinet install issues. The big drawer sits a little low, so you have to lift it over the panel below. It wouldn't latch, so I had to put a spacer in, which is not very sturdy. The cabinet door above the big sliding drawer binds slightly on the corner as it's opening...have not had success adjusting the hinges.
5. Black water tank monitor shows half full after one flush, and full after three.
6. The wrap around windows in the front, the gasket sits about an inch away from the airstream frame, on both sides.

I have found I can clean it wiith hot water, a sponge and a towel. Fortunately no corrosion issues. Good advice here.
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Old 04-13-2009, 05:31 PM   #157
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Originally Posted by ramblin rose View Post
After getting the aforementioned lack of caulking under the TV antenna strut fixed, we went up to Mendocino for New Years, and discovered a few new drips inside. With the recent major rains here in NorCal, last Saturday I went out to check on the Airstream, only to discover puddles inside. Lots of puddles. The Fantastic Fan in the rear had two small drips down to the floor, but more significantly, there was a huge puddle forward, from the shower to the sides of the beds, and water running down the sides of the trailer from seams in the aluminum. And the mattress was soaked, as was the plywood under the mattress.

Fortunately, the storms broke for a bit, and we drove the trailer the hour to the dealer, and had them park it in a service bay (the compromise that we reached after they had told me over the phone that it would be a week before they could look at it, and I told them that it would be ruined in another day). I heard back from them yesterday, they told me that there were huge gaps (the largest that they've seen) in the caulking for the factory-installed solar panels and both fans.

I'm pretty unimpressed that the trailer could have left Airstream without anyone noticing the lack of caulk...
Well, now more than a year later and visits to two more dealers, our Airstream is finally (reportedly) fixed. Turns out that the dealer that we bought it from, and who had the trailer for more than two months last year, did not know what they were talking about. The TV antenna strut is simply glued on, no thru-hulls, so no need for caulk.

We took it to another dealer two hours away, and they fixed the leak in the bedroom - turns out it was poor caulking by the selling dealer on the King Dome installation - that solved the water literally streaming out/down the wall panels in the bedroom.

Not much rain here this year until February and March, so we did not find out until then that we still had major leaks. Finally, at the recommendation of some on this forum, we took it to Toscano's. (three hours away) They found cracks in both skylights and after fixing those, continued to water test, finding still more leaks. They removed a panel or two inside, and determined that there were several small leaks in the roof seal; they then resealed the entire roof. Hopefully that makes for a dry trailer - a year and half later.
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Old 04-13-2009, 08:31 PM   #158
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Reedsport , Oregon
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Ramblin Rose, What was the build date of your unit? Locate tag on on the front roadside with month and year.
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Old 04-13-2009, 09:22 PM   #159
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2008 27' International CCD FB
Mill Valley , California
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Originally Posted by ramblin rose View Post
Well, now more than a year later and visits to two more dealers, our Airstream is finally (reportedly) fixed. Turns out that the dealer that we bought it from, and who had the trailer for more than two months last year, did not know what they were talking about. The TV antenna strut is simply glued on, no thru-hulls, so no need for caulk.

We took it to another dealer two hours away, and they fixed the leak in the bedroom - turns out it was poor caulking by the selling dealer on the King Dome installation - that solved the water literally streaming out/down the wall panels in the bedroom.

Not much rain here this year until February and March, so we did not find out until then that we still had major leaks. Finally, at the recommendation of some on this forum, we took it to Toscano's. (three hours away) They found cracks in both skylights and after fixing those, continued to water test, finding still more leaks. They removed a panel or two inside, and determined that there were several small leaks in the roof seal; they then resealed the entire roof. Hopefully that makes for a dry trailer - a year and half later.
Hey Ramblin
I was wondering if you ever got your trailer dry free!
Glad Toscano was able to fix the problerm....that's where we bought our trailer from.
Did anyone pay for your soaked bed?
Hope to see you on the road!
Dennis
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Old 04-13-2009, 11:29 PM   #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OhScottyOh View Post
Ramblin Rose, What was the build date of your unit? Locate tag on on the front roadside with month and year.
Our unit was built to our order in August 2007.
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Old 04-13-2009, 11:33 PM   #161
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Originally Posted by millvalleyca View Post
Hey Ramblin
I was wondering if you ever got your trailer dry free!
Glad Toscano was able to fix the problerm....that's where we bought our trailer from.
Did anyone pay for your soaked bed?
Hope to see you on the road!
Dennis
We thought that the second guys had fixed it, until the rains really came this year. The bed actually dried out just fine, so no harm there - that leak was the worst and was caused by the King Dome installation, and was fixed by the second dealer (you know who that was).

We'll be dragging it up to the Sierras for the summer, but we are definitely looking forward to staying dry next winter.
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Old 04-22-2009, 09:31 PM   #162
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2008 27' Safari FB SE
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Sorry in advance for the LOOONG post.... Lot's of silly detail below

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Originally Posted by wayner61 View Post
Hi All -

We picked up our new 27FB last Friday. Took it out this weekend for a shake-down trip to ensure that everything was working as expected and to prepare a list for any issues with the overall build so the dealer can take care of them. The unit was manufactured in October of '07 and likely had been on the dealer lot since then.

Issues identified / repaired during the walk-through -

One burned out light bulb in the reading lamp above the dining table.

Issues identified / repaired during our first weekend trip -

1. Missing one of the support arms under the bed. Attachment hardware is there so I think the dealer may have "borrowed" it for a repair on another unit and forgot to replace it. I will have them order me one or "borrow" one from another stock unit.

2. Top hinge on one of the Kitchen sink cabinet doors had one loose screw. Three turns with a screwdriver and it was secure.

3. Missing one of the grommets on the stove top.

4. Found a "blob" of caulking that leaked out from the bottom window frame onto the glass in the kitchen area. Trimmed with a razor blade.

5. One rivet on the ceiling of the bedroom interior skin really looks out of place. It is in one of the pieces coming up from the side that is overlapped by the main ceiling piece where the fan is installed. About a quarter of a rivet head is peeking out under the overlap. My guess is that it should have been installed under the overlap so it isn't visible. It looks like it would be a real bear to repair or re-do, so I think I will live with it. Evidence that humans installed that panel, not a robot.

6. Rumbles and unwanted noise in the stereo system that is well documented in a couple of threads. I will pursue those solutions to that issue.

All other exterior and interior trim, rivets, etc... seem to be fine with the single exception noted above. All other systems seemed to work fine. With the nice TX summer weather, I didn't really test the furnace, but it did come on and blow warm air. No other issues noted. Overall - I am very pleased. With the exception of the stereo noise and the caulking, none of the issues seems to be "factory" related, but who knows? I probably could have caught them during the walk-through, but I was focused more on the "bigger" things. In looking through the thread, it appears I got one built on a "good" week. I will keep digging around and will post anything else that pops up over the next month or so.
Well -- It took a while, but I thought I would provide an update on our unit now that we have had it for a little while.

Right after I posted this, I spoke with the selling dealer about getting the support arm replaced as well as getting a grommet for the range top grate. They assured me they would get the parts ordered and call me when I could pick them up. Several weeks later, I called and found that they no longer had a dealer relationship with airstream The fact that this dealer was local and close to me was the single deciding factor in purchasing from them. Overall, I had better pricing from Colonial in NJ and had talked to Gene at Airstream of Arkansas. Silly, silly me. I thought I should support the local guys. They must have known they were getting out of the business when they sold me the unit. They just decided not to share that bit of info with me. They even went so far as to tell me how long they had been selling A/S, how much they were into the product, Top 10 dealer (blatent lie) and so on...

Since neither of these things were "show stoppers", I decided to just keep using the trailer for a while to see if anything that needed to be repaired would pop up. Once I got a few things going that needed to be taken care of, I would take it someplace where they would actually do the warranty work.

I went ahead and fixed the stereo rumbling and wiring myself. I documented what I did in the thread "using the TV as a center chanel speaker".

After using the trailer pretty heavily (at least for us weekend warrior types) all summer, fall and what passed for winter here in TX, I had a couple of other things that needed fixing that weren't on my original list.

* Air conditioning compressor would "hang" on occasion, still running after the fan shut off. Not frequently, but once in a while is once in while too much. Resolved temporarily by always running the fan in manual mode instead of auto when using the heat pump or AC

* Trim piece on pull-out portion of the sofa kept getting loose. Every screw ended up being stripped. Unable to repair it myself, so we just quit using the pull-out piece.

* The edge trim on the pantry wall slipped leaving a raw edge near the ceiling in the kitchen.

* The latch on the propane cover was rusted pretty badly. Oiling it didn't help the functioning. Sticks and is hard to open at times.

* Outlet in the bathroom started slipping and going "crooked" Screws couldn't be tightened.

* The microwave control panel quit working. Could not set the clock or do timed cooking. The microwave still worked, but functionality was restricted.

*The accordion door in the hall between the kitchen and bath has a warped leading edge causing it to stick out slightly at the bottom.

* A seven hour trip with 5 hours of driving in the rain revealed at least a couple of leaks. The front compartment door behind the propane tanks was leaking a little. Not enough to get the floor "wet", but some moisture was getting past the seals. A more serious issue was somewhere in the area of the fridge. There was a puddle on the floor and water in the little storage cubby beneath the fridge. No water on any of the upolstry, carpet or bedding. Nothing in the roadside closet got wet.

All in all, not a ton of issues, but a few things I really wanted to get taken care of. In addition, much to the detriment of my bank account, I have spent a bunch of time looking through this message board and found several upgrades that I wanted to have performed. After reading through many reviews of dealer and service experiences as well as pinging a few folks privately for honest feedback, I decided to take my trailer to Roger Williams Airstream in Weatherford, TX.

I called there and spoke to the new service manager, Robert Haberzettle. I told him what I wanted to get done and we scheduled an appointment time for me to drop off the trailer. He asked me for some photos of issues that I was concerned about as well as a list of the upgrades I wanted. We agreed on the pricing for the upgrades and I promised to drop off the trailer on the Monday after our spring break trip to the coast.

The drop off was very smooth. We went over the stuff I wanted done agian. He confirmed my contact info again and promissed to stay in touch. In short - A very professional outfit. A real pleasure to do business with.

We talked a couple of times throughout the next couple of weeks while work was being done and parts were being shipped in. Airstream declined to warrant the door problem. Robert explained what they had told him. While I disagreed with the decision, I can't really fault them too much. I posted the question about the door on this board and found several others who had the same issue and it wasn't bothering them. Maybe I am just being too picky.

As they were getting closer to wrapping everything up, Robert called to schedule the pickup. I went over there after work last Friday to pick up the trailer.

Denver - the technician - had done a very thorough job and had fixed everything to my satisfaction.

They installed the bed prop and missing stove grommet and replaced the microwave.

Larger screws, and more of them, were installed in the trim piece on the sofa pull-out.

Trim on wall for pantry was pulled back into place and secured.

New road side and rear awnings were installed. I absolutely LOVE them!

New stainless steel furnace door, water heater door and stove vent were installed.

New style airbox for the AC unit installed. I REALLY like this. This unit fits the ceiling much better, has side venting as well as fore and aft. Overall, much more contemporary looking.

New curved edge steps installed. Proabably the silliest thing I had done, but I liked the way the curve echoes the lines of the trailer. These are the steps they are using on the flying cloud line.

New propane cover latch and striker installed. The hardware looks like stainless steel instead of the chrome on the old one. Not sure at this point.

New bathroom plug installed with some additonal support behind it to keep it from moving around.

AC problem turned out to be a faulty wire coming from the thermostat. The rest of the AC diagnostics turned out fine.

The seal on the front compartment was re-worked and the latches adjusted to fix that leak.

I had them perform Seal Tech leak testing (not covered by waranty) to see if they could find any leaks. During that testing, they found the source of the leak around the fridge. Water was coming in around a stripped out screw in the deflector shield on the roof-top fridge vent. They also found a small leak around one of the vent stacks for the bathroom. Denver also said he added a little Acryl-R (sp??) to one of the seams near the roof. He also adjusted most of the window latches to get a better seal. During recent rains, I have not found any evedence of any leaking at all.

Overall, I could not be happier with the outcome. The guys at Roger Williams did a great job, were thorough and professional in all communications with me and met all of their commitments as well as my (rather high) expectations.

I remain very happy overall with the trailer and still have a very positive feeling about the overall build quality. Most of the problems have been very minor and easy to correct. I'm not happy at all with the selling dealer, but since they now seem to be exclusively selling Yamaha motorcycles, no potential Airstreamers will have to put up with them.

Feel free to PM me if you have any questions at all.

Wayne
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Old 04-23-2009, 12:23 AM   #163
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Update on post 104.
Since we live 2000 Km away from the dealership, issues that we discovered on our way home had to wait. We have a May apt. and hopefully they can work on the door. DH has read all the posts, and wants them to fix it. The square AC shroud promptly cracked with the first bump, DH installed rubber pads to break the shock, but we want a new cover, the AC fan blade rubs somewhere, they might as well fix that while up there. We need an update on how to use the heater, we never figured it out. We are on the Wet coast and the front window leak was easily fixed with caulking no other leaks detected, and with the rainfall here believe me we would notice. It's been a long winter, we are looking forward to our May trip. The A/S was lucky enough to fit in a friends garage for the winter, all the fabric peices at our home, clean and waiting to be popped into position. I look forward to posting again after our apt. to let you know how the service was, so far they have been unable to recieve our fax's with pic's attached!!

Jackie
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Old 05-03-2009, 08:28 PM   #164
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Vinyl floor buckle

I started a thread on this topic, but Silvertwinkie suggested I post here with other 2008 issues. Our Airstream (23D CCD) survived its first winter in Saskatchewan (north of N. Dakota and Montana). When we checked on it during the winter, we noticed the loose-lay vinyl floor buckling. We expected this and were impressed that it didn't crack as some cheaper floors do. The weather has finally warmed up and we expected it to lay down by now. We've been pushing it to the sides and stepping straight on it trying to encourage it to slip back under the furniture, but it hasn't budged. This seems to be common with new Airstreams up here. What can we do to promote its flattening? Our neighbours also a 2008 (25 ft FB Safari) and they have the same trouble. The dealer said it should go down. I have pictures of my unit, but I'll try to get some of my neighbours' unit if it helps. The dealer here is new and I doubt has dealt with many warranty issues. This seems like a minor issue, and I'd be afraid of having the furniture lifted just to set the floor down again.
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Old 05-03-2009, 08:50 PM   #165
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Ouch!

I have the same vinyl in my 2008 and it's not doing that. Just came back from using this weekend. I'd make a trip to the dealer - or better yet - the factory for that repair. Any ideas as to what caused it? Freeze-thaw ?
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Old 06-14-2009, 10:20 AM   #166
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Okay, I've had my 2008 Classic 25' FB since Sept. 08 and I have yet to use it without a problem cropping up. Here's my list so far:
1) The Actibrake unit started "acting" up. It was very slow to release hyd. pressure which resulting in the brakes dragging. The dealer replaced the Actibrake unit and the brakes work great.
2) Numerous water line leaks from poorly assembled compression ring fittings. Again, fixed by the dealer and back on the road.
3) Shower leaked like a sieve. Dealer caulked around door trim and base of shower door. No more leaky shower.
4) Electric jack quit working. Dealer removed paint from screws and bolts on hitch jack assembly, thus properly grounding the jack to the frame. Jack now works great.
5) Bathroom sink drains VERY slowly. Dealer says they all do that on this model due to a design flaw, i.e., poor drain line venting.
6) Last issue (still unresolved), my 15,000 BTU Duo-Therm Heat Pump doesn't work. The compressor trips the 20A A/C CB everytime it tries to start. My A/S has been at the dealer's place for the last two weeks while they continue to order parts (bigger and bigger capacitors).

Terry
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Old 06-14-2009, 11:23 AM   #167
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Since my last post on this thread long, long ago, many more problems have occurred—well over 20 since last September. A lot got fixed at Jackson Center almost 2 months ago. We won't go to the Denver dealer. Our experience there was very bad, and though this thread isn't about dealers, poor dealer quality is part of the problem. It takes too much time to list all our quality issues and I've done so elsewhere. In reading old threads that died years ago, I've learned QC has been a big issue for some time and yet JC has been unresponsive. There seems to be little communication between the factory and the repair shop there, so the factory goes without feedback. This is not the way a modern industrial company should operate.

Gene
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Old 06-14-2009, 12:48 PM   #168
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My first Airstream was an old 1972 23 foot Safari. It was pretty rough when we got it. It ended up fixing everything in the trailer except the AC, that worked from day one and never failed. What made it worth it was the basic build quality of the trailer. Then the trailer was broken into and ruined.
I have just replaced it with a 2008 Safari Sport. I can say that the quality of the floors and laminants are not as good as the 72 stuff. Still, I have tried to buy laminant and the 72 quality materials are just not available anymore. Little things like the bathroom vent fan, over the stove fan and some extra storage has also been eliminated. The body construction is good, but I found that the 72 was just a little better.
I had the same problem with the microwave as noted above, but that was easy to fix. The only other problem I have had is the laminant getting pulled at the edges. I finally just gave up and capped the edges with aluminum. (the 72 had most edges finished with metal trim to start with) When compared to other trailers in this size/price/weight range, the Airstream is still great value for the money. I have some friends with SOB and they are impressed with the quality of the Airstream. I really have nothing to campare it to other than my old 72.
While I do like my new Safari, I wish it had been built to the same level of trim and finish as my old Safari. Then again, I'm sure not complaining about little extras like a walk in shower, microwave and digital TV. Maybe Airstream will hear us and try to step up the quality a couple of notches.
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