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Old 08-10-2007, 06:46 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by SilverCabin
So far I have had good results with the built-in No Fuss Flush system. We'll be traveling for over 30 days soon, so I'll report back if my opinion changes.

Randy
Just received my Flush King to day and will give it a try tommorrow. I will report back with the results.
Allen
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Old 08-14-2007, 07:53 AM   #114
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Talking 2007 19' Bambi Safari

Hi Everyone...

We got our brand new 19' Bambi Safari about a month ago, form Woodland Travel Center in Grand Rapids, MI. We are pretty happy with the trailer thus far. Took it out for a 2-night shake down weekend to the MI dunes near South Haven. We look forward to full-timing for half the year after I retire (within 3 years).

Overall, we love it, but I have seen a few things that are disappointments in such a high-dollar trailer. Cant' believe it didn't come with a spare! Water heater by-pass is under the mattress! Now that's a real mess to get to. Low-point drains are also under there, but can be accessed from the rear storage, (luckily, I'm just barely still thin and flexible enought to reach them from the rear). Step must be up to crank the front R. stabilizer!

Trailer is currently back in for Warranty repairs!
We had a substantial leak in the toilet water valve. It obviously was not tested in dealer prep! Little locking tab on the outside stove vent flapper broke of during walk-through demo. Whole exterior vent had to be ordered... that took a month! Can't believe that crappy vent is plastic! Am having a Fan-Tastic Vent Fan installed in the front vent over the dinette. Having a spare installed. Having an electric tongue jack installed. I hate the outside water heater metal cover. Doesn't fit right and looks like crap compared to the fridge access doors. Why not have the same recessed doors?

Things that have me a bit concerned for the future... after reading many threads on here.... are: Frame corrosion over time (there's already a tiny bit of rust on the rear bumper). Maintaining the finish. Need for a better converter? 2 or 3 stage? Need for quieter water pump and holding tank?
Am thinking about solar panels and / or generator(s) as we like to boondock mostly. or stay in national forest campgrounds when possible. In the past 5 years of pop-up camping we never once hooked up to anything!

We are towing with a '97 Toyota 4 Runner V6, Reese weight distribution hitch and sway bar. So far, I am happy with the feel while towing. No problems thus far, but not much freeway, mountain or bad weather towing yet.

We look forward to years of joy and meeting you folks down the road, in some remote camp.

Pete
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Old 08-15-2007, 12:49 PM   #115
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Our 2007 International 25' FB is back to the dealer for warranty work. The AC went out this past weekend. It would run, but not cool properly. When we left the campground Monday morning the inside temp was 5 deg. less than the outside 85 deg. The dealer said they had replaced several on these AC units.

I had a list of things; leaking water line behind toilet, lights that never worked, broken light fixture push button, trailer hookup cord to tow vehicle insulation jacket pulled loose from plug (delivered that way, they hooked up to my truck), AC cable insulation jacket pulled loose from plug, and leaking rivet above one of the vista view windows when it rained.

I fixed myself; the dvd to TV cable plug not connected to the back of the dvd player, water heater burner not aligned properly producing intermittent flame, bathroom towel bar loose, and Equalizer hitch L bracket not install properly by dealer.
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Old 08-15-2007, 01:24 PM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantom
Hi Everyone...

We got our brand new 19' Bambi Safari about a month ago, form Woodland Travel Center in Grand Rapids, MI. We are pretty happy with the trailer thus far. Took it out for a 2-night shake down weekend to the MI dunes near South Haven. We look forward to full-timing for half the year after I retire (within 3 years).

Overall, we love it, but I have seen a few things that are disappointments in such a high-dollar trailer. Cant' believe it didn't come with a spare! Water heater by-pass is under the mattress! Now that's a real mess to get to. Low-point drains are also under there, but can be accessed from the rear storage, (luckily, I'm just barely still thin and flexible enought to reach them from the rear). Step must be up to crank the front R. stabilizer!

Trailer is currently back in for Warranty repairs!
We had a substantial leak in the toilet water valve. It obviously was not tested in dealer prep! Little locking tab on the outside stove vent flapper broke of during walk-through demo. Whole exterior vent had to be ordered... that took a month! Can't believe that crappy vent is plastic! Am having a Fan-Tastic Vent Fan installed in the front vent over the dinette. Having a spare installed. Having an electric tongue jack installed. I hate the outside water heater metal cover. Doesn't fit right and looks like crap compared to the fridge access doors. Why not have the same recessed doors?

Things that have me a bit concerned for the future... after reading many threads on here.... are: Frame corrosion over time (there's already a tiny bit of rust on the rear bumper). Maintaining the finish. Need for a better converter? 2 or 3 stage? Need for quieter water pump and holding tank?
Am thinking about solar panels and / or generator(s) as we like to boondock mostly. or stay in national forest campgrounds when possible. In the past 5 years of pop-up camping we never once hooked up to anything!

We are towing with a '97 Toyota 4 Runner V6, Reese weight distribution hitch and sway bar. So far, I am happy with the feel while towing. No problems thus far, but not much freeway, mountain or bad weather towing yet.

We look forward to years of joy and meeting you folks down the road, in some remote camp.

Pete
Please do keep us posted on the new Airstream. I do not currently own a trailer. I do want an Airstream but the QC problems are holding me back. Is anyone at Airstream listening?
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Old 08-15-2007, 03:54 PM   #117
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Overall Quality is Better Than the SOBs

Quote:
Originally Posted by lwood
Please do keep us posted on the new Airstream. I do not currently own a trailer. I do want an Airstream but the QC problems are holding me back. Is anyone at Airstream listening?
lwood,

Don't let what has been posted here hold you back. I would buy another one again in a minute. You won't find a better made trailer in any of the white boxes on wheels.

We all tend to get carried away with our own issues, when really they are small issues. I'm sure you would get this same opinion from everyone here, and the thousands of Airstream owners that haven't discovered this forum yet.

Randy
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Old 08-15-2007, 04:58 PM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverCabin
lwood,

Don't let what has been posted here hold you back. I would buy another one again in a minute. You won't find a better made trailer in any of the white boxes on wheels.

We all tend to get carried away with our own issues, when really they are small issues. I'm sure you would get this same opinion from everyone here, and the thousands of Airstream owners that haven't discovered this forum yet.

Randy
Randy, with all due respect, one issue isn't all that small. The exterior corrosion issue. That is a major, major thing. Do I still like Airstreams? Sure, but I wouldn't be too quick to discount the corroision issue. It has the potential of really lowering the value of the trailer and it basically looks terrible. Some folks have reported this happening on units about 6 months old. Mine is 3 years old and the issue continues to evolve and there appears to be little way to stop it that is not expensive....slow it down maybe. For the amount of money we are talking about with new Airstreams, I share lwood's concerns and reservations. You can buy a lot of SOBs for the price of one Airstream. One thing I've said in the past is that perhaps folks consider pre-owned or finding one that hasn't been titled and is a great closeout deal. Might soften the blow of paying full price (minus typical horse trading) knowing that the issue could happen. I know it doesn't happen to all of them, so it is a gamble, but it's an expensive gamble, one that can depreciate the unit significantly depending on how pronounced the issue is.....

Reader's Digest version of all this is that although the QC has been better than when I first sampled in 2003, it still has a long way to go, most interactions with the company are great and the folks I've delt with there have also been wonderful to work with....but ask some of the higher ups about the corrosion issue and the silence can be deafening, particularly if you are out of warranty.
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Old 08-16-2007, 11:13 AM   #119
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Can we think different?

Silvertwinkie,

For the most part, you and I are in "violent agreement" on the corrosion and quality issues, but my point is that the intensity of our posts and threads on some issues are counterproductive to what should be our collective goal of encouraging Airstream ownership.

The corrosion that I have found on the rear endcap beltline of my less than a year old trailer (pictures posted previously) is certainly the most significant quality/warranty issue I have. My others items are nits by comparison and I would probably fix them myself, but since we are going to JC in October, I'm letting them do that.

I agree the corrosion shouldn't be there on a trailer of this age, and I'm not happy that it is. Sure, Airstream has offered to repair it by cleaning it off, resealing, and installing the classic trim, but will it crawl out from under the trim in the future--probably. Will I see it in another unrelated spot sometime down the road--most likely. Will it affect the resale value of my trailer in the future--who knows, there may be other, bigger issues that affect the price.

Yes, we all paid a lot for our units, and could have bought maybe two SOBs for the same price. I purchased mine new, so I have first hand experience with the price differential. Unless your purchasing a Rolls Royce though, can you really expect perfection on any manufactured item today? I think not. You have to be prepared to address some items after delivery. Quality control will never be able to catch everything. Look at what's happening with Mattel toys today.

Yes, I would hope that the Airstream Corporation would address any problem that is reported. By your last count, I recall there were 20 - 30 owners reporting corrosion problems. What percentage is that of all the trailers on the road in those same model years? I think itís a small number. Because it affects you, me, and our friends here on the forum personally, itís a big issue for us, but it's probably a small issue for Airstream Corporation, and it will eventually bubble to the top as they address items of higher priority.

What I have observed from my 10-month association with this forum is that we are tremendously supportive, and welcoming of anyone who owns any Airstream product. We are a wealth of information and help for anyone on any issue thatís related to operating, maintaining, and traveling with their trailers, motor homes, and tow vehicles. And, we have friendly, neighborly chats about other topics like how hot is it where you are, or the latest joke we heard. All that is what is great about being a member here. I am very glad that I found the forum for all those reasons, and look forward to meeting you and more of our active members one day.

We tend however, to blow things out of proportion when something goes even a little bit wrong, and I think that's detrimental to promoting Airstream ownership, and for some of us, encouraging WBCCI membership. Examples of this in my opinion are the corrosion issues thread, the model year quality threads, the thread that started out as KOAs Stink and was later renamed, the thread that exploded when the NEU had its issues getting into the International, and some of other WBCCI threads to name a few. I'm just as responsible as anyone else because I posted to most of those threads too.

I just had a look at the Portal and there are nearly four times as many guests on the forum as there are members right now. You can see that at almost any time of the day. We want to draw people into the Airstream owners club, not push them away. When I see a post like lwood's post #116 above, I get worried. lwood joined the forum over a year ago and never posted until a few days ago (1 post), but what about the others lurking out there right now? Maybe they are contemplating purchasing an Airstream, or joining the WBCCI. What opinion will they have after reading some of our overly negative information?

Let's help people become proud, happy, and active Airstream owners and encourage active membership in the WBCCI (if that be your pleasure) to make it what we want it to be. I'm not saying we need to look at everything through rose colored glasses, but the cup is half full more often than it is half empty.

FWIW,

Randy
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Old 08-16-2007, 12:01 PM   #120
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Well this specific thread is about quality control and there are very few resources out there to share both the good and bad about our units. Twink loves his trailer but when you pay the prices that Airstream demands for their product you expect more. That's human nature.

When you have a problem, its very easy for the manufacturer to deal with you on a one person basis. Unfortunately you as the consumer have no idea whether you are an isolated incident or whether there are others like you. In groups, you have strength and while we do air the dirty laundry on our trailers, it's also a barometer to those interested as to what the potential issues are. Can it scare people away? Well if I'm dropping 70K on a new Classic I'm going to be a lot more careful about what I buy and if that hurts Airstream, so be it. They have to sell a quality product and if by reading these posts I have steered you away from purchasing, that's your decision to make.

I don't expect perfection but things like the corrosion issue are big things since it can materially affect the value and my satisfaction level of how I spent my $$. The worst thing we can do is stand aside with our hands in our pockets and let manufacturers get away with quality issues that they either deny or refuse to acknowledge. The amount of information that Airstream gets here at no cost to them, saves them countless $$$ on after the sale research. This is probably the best resource they have, short of warranty claims as to how their products are holding up. My attitude to the folks out there is to let them know what's not right. Also let them know what is. And if you feel this is the place to do that, then come on in.....just remember to do it nicely!

We cheer Airstreams here, but this is not a company owned site. To expect nothing but positive is naive at the least, and we hope that company personnel use what is passed on here to go after these kinds of problems and to make the product better. It's up ultimately to the reader to make their decision and it's up to the manufacturer to make the decisions that affect quality and their public image, that all go into the mix as to whether we buy or not.

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Old 08-16-2007, 12:51 PM   #121
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I don't disagree with you Terry. I think you're right that sometimes things can be made bigger than they need to be. OTOH, Jack is right and brings up some great points as well. In the end I'm in agreement that as long as it can stay civil that both good and not so good info belongs and let the reader make the final decision. The one area where I am a bit grey though is in the perfection area. I don't think any product, minus say a diamond is flawless. However, I do feel, and feel fairly strongly that Airstream should be held to a higher standard. The reason I say that is mostly because they are charging a premium price for a premium product. Corrosion issues aside, there are a number of small issues that seem to traverse many model years that I have noticed since starting these WC threads in late 2003. For example, the leaking showers, the countertops that delaminate or were not routed or glued correctly. These are exactly why I started the QC threads back in 2004 so that we could identify what was working and what has not been working. I do know that Airstream Factory Employeess are here on the forums and that they read these.

In the end we are all human, but Kennedy said it best:

"An error doesn't have to become a mistake unless we refuse to correct it"

These threads are a means to that end hopefully and the reader takes the info an makes a decision for themselves.
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Old 08-16-2007, 01:24 PM   #122
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I guess I kind of hijacked the thread with my little rant, sorry about that. Good discussion and good points made by all.

Now back to our regularly scheduled program....

Randy
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Old 08-16-2007, 02:04 PM   #123
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I guess I kind of hijacked the thread with my little rant, sorry about that. Good discussion and good points made by all.

Now back to our regularly scheduled program....

Randy
I thought you made some pretty good points Randy... I personally didn't feel it was a rant or a hijacking....we're not here to supress anyone's feelings or thoughts, unless they get personal or offensive, none of which I found in your post. Just another part of the ongoing dialogue.
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Old 09-24-2007, 07:44 PM   #124
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Thumbs up minor hijack

Watching a Ken Burns special documentary on WWll. Talk about superior quality control. Those ladies got out a plane every 63 minutes and it had to be right!! Now Airstream gets out a unit every how often, but will it fly (pass the QC test?) The obvious difference? Woman Power, of course.
We Can (no should) Do It!

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OK I just had to say that.
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Old 09-25-2007, 09:35 PM   #125
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Thumbs down Air They Listening?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lwood
Is anyone at Airstream listening?
LISTENING....HEARING.....DOING

WELL, TWO OUT OF THREE ANYWAY.
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Old 09-30-2007, 09:45 PM   #126
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took possession of the 28' int. Sign. Series a week ago.
A small crack on the shower housing. It happen that the factory put a piece of plywood between the shower housing and the water line to tighten the spout. Weird way to go. So it was fixed more or less and now I have a small leak that will be fixed easily.
But I think there is also a leak from the bottom or side of shower door frame. I have to track that down.
Not too much to do though annoying.
A piece of rivet is stuck between two panels at the edge of the upper interior skin so I will need to remove two or three rivets to loosen this small piece.
Except that nothing wrong.
I am on my way to Vancouver so I did contact my dealer in Ontario tonight by email not expecting an answer before tomorrow and he answered me back few minutes ago. They are doing a real good follow up.
He offered me to take an appointment to the nearest dealer in Thunder Bay but I'll prefer to do it myself so far.
By the way I was amazed to figure out that the walls are 3/4" plywood I thought it was press wood.
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