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Old 12-03-2006, 09:25 PM   #29
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2007 25' Safari FB SE
rio rico , Arizona
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2007 Safari 25 FB SE LS

Have had it home for almost 2 weeks now. Much better F & F than the previous 2005 22' CCD. Only some minor things that I can take care drawers in galley cabinet all close to different positions. Simple ( I think ) fix to reposition the catches so they all close to the same plane. I know, I know, somewhat anal there, but...... Also straightened a couple 110 VAC outlets, why can't they be installed straight and level?? A few other details, but very minor. NOW...the strange one. After 7,8 days of 0+ temps, highs about 16 degrees, the door will not latch. Talked to Nick at Spokane Airstream and he says "same problem with some of their coaches outside". Apparently is cold enough for some shrinkage of the door and surrounding frame, etc. so the jaws will not wrap around the bolt and lock up. Now that's a close tolerance!! Will see what happens when it warms up...about July!!!
All in all, I LIKE it!!!
Cheers, Jeff

2007 Safari 25 FB SE LS
2006 Chev Express 3500 Duramax
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"Home is where the ART is"
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Old 12-08-2006, 09:31 AM   #30
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2004 30' Classic Slideout
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Originally Posted by 2airishuman

ok, hi larry

never put water in the fresh tank before? so the loose fill tube was a surprise.

check almost any of the winterizing threads here....

most suggest just putting antifreeze in the lines with a bypass kit or via the inlet hose to the water pump.

some in the traps, toilet bowl and b/g tanks...that's it.

it will take a dozen full tanks of fresh water to remove most of the anitfreeze..

since the tank never is completely driained, perhaps more...yikes.

hope there aren't too many other surprizes...

While we always like to use the pump as the means to get the antifreeze into the system, the pump is not always accessible. On my 27' '01 Safari the pump was under the floor of the main closet. Unfortunately that year's model had no access from the floor of the closet. The only way to get to the pump was to remove some paneling below the closet door. Not a terrible job since there were accessible screws....but wait even with the screws out the paneling wouldn't budge. Why? Well in their wisdom Airstream framed the paneling with wood trim that went floor to ceiling which was stapled in. I either would have to remove the entire trim piece or cut it to remove only a portion.

I chose to use the fresh water tank method of getting antifreeze into the system. Either I have poor taste buds or after 3 flushes I got all of it out of the tank.


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'04 Classic 30' S.O.,'03 GMC Savana 2500,'14 Honda CTX 700
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Old 12-08-2006, 09:42 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by mickleton
I guess some good came out of it by discovering the fill hose not connected. Never would have thought to check that. Like filling your truck with fuel you expect it is going in the tank not between the seats.
I can top that. I bought a new SOB in November from a dealer. The dealer did not prep on the water system since it was dead cold and he didn't want to winterize. The trailer sat at home all winter and on a early spring day I decided to go out a prowl around inside my warm trailer.

I opened up cabinets and looked at things like water lines and drains. To my surprise I found that the city water inlet was missing about 4 inches of piping. If I had connected the outside hookup, I would have flooded the trailer. The very embarrassed dealer corrected the problem.

From that lesson I've learned to trust no one and as best I can, I do a visual of all the lines I can get to. The fresh water tank filler line is a common weak point on many trailers and it's not unusual to find that the clamps on both ends of that filler line are sometimes haphazardly secured.

Jack Canavera
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'04 Classic 30' S.O.,'03 GMC Savana 2500,'14 Honda CTX 700
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Old 12-08-2006, 10:01 AM   #32
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2006 30' Classic
Farmington , New Mexico
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Quote;;I know, I know, somewhat anal there, but...... Also straightened a couple 110 VAC outlets, why can't they be installed straight and level?? A few other details, but very minor.

Clay---Maybe I'm anal too, but the little details you mention while not really all that "big-a deal" , does give you the impression that the skill level of those assembling leave something to be desired. It leaves you thinking that if they can't attach something thats in plain view straight, or are pushed for production so much they don't have time for these items, what about those things I can't see !!! We purchased 3 airstreams in as many years and each has been a little better than the year before. It appears they are making progress, still those little items urk me more than big some time. ---Pieman
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Old 12-08-2006, 10:13 AM   #33
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I am in disbelief that airstream does not install a winterizing kit in their new trailers. Am I missing something here? My neighbor just winterized HIS Lance camper it took all of 10 minutes...most of the time goofing off. Has a builtin bypass/wintering valve. He dumped a couple gallons of RV anti freeze in a bucket and opened the door to the wanter pump...flipped the bypass to winterize stuck the winterize hose in the bucket....opened the facets in the camper turned on the water pump....and in two minutes later..was done??? Antifreeze in the water system but not in the hot water tank or fresh water tank. He opened a valve to drain the hot water tank and fresh water simple....why is this an issue with Airstream???...I am new..and shopping?????
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Old 12-08-2006, 11:42 AM   #34
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hi dford'

agree completely a/s should include a winterizing bypass....

or all dealers should know how to install one ideally for any model...

the problem is, as jack has suggested, the water pump location varies greatly...

from model to model

storage space and 'systems' space is at a premium inside our little tubes...

the water pump is just one example...

but since it makes noise, leaks, fails and otherwise is a pia...

we deal with that one gadget frequently...

even in the largest units a/s makes one must essentially deconstruct a closet for access....

ask me how i know...

and as a condition for delivery, ask the dealer to include this feature....

all of the true things that i am about to tell you are shameless lies. l.b.j.

we are here on earth to fart around. don't let anybody tell you any different. k.v.
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Old 12-08-2006, 12:22 PM   #35
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In the 25' Classic the pump is in the wardrobe closet below the bottom shelf.There's hardly enough room to unscrew the water line and no room to install the valve the comes with the kit to pump antifreeze in the lines,I could just get the hose and coupling on. It would be nice to be able to leave it on as intended.
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Old 12-08-2006, 01:08 PM   #36
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2004 19' International CCD
Chicago , Illinois
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This is something I've posted about before: The under $20.00 anti-freeze valve should be installed on every AS rolling off the line. This real is a no-brainer, and it is beyond me why they don't do it.

As I've mentioned before, I'd even PAY EXTRA if it were just done at the time of build. Pouring anti freeze in the water tank sucks!!!

Sometimes I wish I were living in the stone age. Then I would know I'm the smartest person in the world.
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Old 12-10-2006, 04:09 PM   #37
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2007 23' International CCD
Lapeer , Michigan
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I couldn't agree more about Airstream putting in a valve for winterizing with easy access and also an external water shut off valve. All these modifications were undertaken by my husband Brad and just completed today.

Your space may be more limited than ours, this is the 27' FB Classic.

1. The closet floor is fastened with about 8 screws and also in one piece supports a shelf over the vertical check valve pipe. Removing is not difficult but time consuming and awkward. Replacing it would be more difficult lining it all back up. So first modification was an easy access point. A cutout from the existing floor was made and then bracing was attached to hold it back in place. It now removes easily and has strength to support storage.

2. An antifreeze valve was permanently installed at the intake of the water pump and to help facilitate access, a longer length of pipe extending it to within easy reach was added.

3. He also put in a shutoff valve for the external water service. Now we can use our fresh water holding tank in cold weather conditions. The city water inlet and outside water share the same pipe so the turnoff is located before both extend to the Airstream's exterior.
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Old 12-11-2006, 10:50 AM   #38
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2007 20' Safari
2016 26' Flying Cloud
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2007 Safari Quality

We took Delivery of our 2007 Safari 20 ft.last month. Weve Had a short Trip,and had it next to the Garage a couple of weeks prior to putting it in storage.
The overall quality appears to be Very Good and Dealer prep was Excellent.
What has bugged me is that it does not have a Winterize Kit, we had sob that cost less than half and it had one. Also my other trailer had a 3-way Fridge and I could Adjust the Temp.After i rcvd.our AS we noticed the fridge temp can't be adjusted !! Another thing is the curtains on the large side window have Just enough material to meet not a 1/16th more.
When spring return's we will see what else comes up.
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Old 01-25-2007, 07:11 AM   #39
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2004 25' Safari
. , Illinois
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I was at the Chicago Boat and RV show this year, and besides the RV section being a let down (very few RVs), I found the US Adventure RV area with 4 Airstrems. A 19', 25' FB, Basecamp and Interstate.

The Interstate looks fine, but I didn't really look too closely.

The BaseCamp seemed more like a toy than a real RV and one step above tenting for $30k??

The 19' I walked in, seemed fairly good overall. Fit and finish looked fine, but where I spent most of my time was the 25' FB SE.

The 25' FB SE was a total wreck in terms of manufact quality. The unit had missing rivets in the inside, several doors that closed but had a LOT of play, and a number of the interior "CCD" type panels seemed like they were just thrown on in a manner like...."well, there is still gap here, let's put this piece in and cover it". Which did cover the gap, but, it also made that spot higher than the rest of the panels in a square area, not a like a joint seam.

I was not able to see the build plates because of the way the units were configured for the show, there was little to no access to these areas.

Now don't get me wrong, the QC has been better since 2003, but what I found interesting was in the boating section. I came across the Chris Craft line. I would consider these the "Airstreams" of the boating market. Very retro, like our Airstreams, a lot of hand building (and automations too I'm sure), yet each of the 5 boats I looked at very closely were on the surface, perfect in evey way shape and form. It was the type of work you'd expect from a premium brand. So I again started to think of the two Airstreams I've owned and the most recent 25' FB SE I just saw and just shook my head. It's no slam on Airstream. Many of the folks there are really great group of folks, but it would be really, truely great if they could match what Chris Craft does and follow what some of the other premium brands do in overall fit, finish and quality.

To Airstreams credit, their units were by far better than most of the units at the show, minus say the $350k and above units I saw.
Computers manufactured by companies such as IBM, Compaq and millions of others are by far the most popular with about 70 million machines in use worldwide. Macintosh fans note that cockroaches are far more numerous than humans and that numbers alone do not denote a higher life form. -NY Times 11/91
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Old 02-01-2007, 11:20 AM   #40
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2007 27' Safari FB SE
Tracy , California
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2007 Safari quality

Our 2007 Safari 27 FB SE LS seems pretty tight. We have only spent two nights and only 250 miles but are pretty happy so far. What we have found:

Water leak below shower door. What a surprise!

Cabinet doors over stove do not match. Very different colors. AS factory is sending replacement

Leaking petcock under trailer. Very slow leak but does cause the pump to cycle every so often.

I have a solar unit but the batterys seem to loose their charge. I don't know if I have a bad cell in a battery or the stereo amplifier is just always on. I need to check more.

Aside from those, this thing seems well built and I have found no leaks. Then again, we are having a drought in Norther California and rain has not been coming.
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Old 02-01-2007, 12:04 PM   #41
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What exactly is quality? Many of talk about “quality” but how many of us understand what quality really means. According to the gurus of quality management, it means conformance to requirements. It is not some nebulous touchy, feely thing.

Some basic requirements for an RV would be that it leak free, have reasonable load carrying capacity and be sturdy enough that it doesn’t shake apart on the first rough road. The first step in any quality program is setting requirements. Requirements must be measurable. It appears to the casual observer that not only does Airstream not have any effective quality control program; they don’t even know what quality means. Quality cannot be inspected in; it must be engineered and planned in. The US auto industry was in the same place as the RV industry in the 70s & 80s. Quality control was the “burned toast” method. By that, I mean they inspected after the fact, and then tried to fix the things that were wrong. Like burned toast, just scraping off the burn won’t make the toast really good; you have to adjust the toaster. In manufacturing, that means fixing the processes.

At GM, we too had water test, which was more severe than Airstream. We still regularly shipped cars that leaked. Offshore competitors, because they had their processes in control, didn’t need water test to ship leak free units. Not only did they eliminate the cost of water test, they were able to reduce costs by using assembly processes that couldn’t be used if you had water test.

The American auto industry has finally caught up, but is still paying the price with the consumer. Many of them still believe that the off shore manufacturers build much better quality, even though measurable tests show that it is not true.

I hope that someone like Honda or Toyota will get into the RV industry and show the current manufacturers that you can build quality at a completive price. It is NOT the workers’ fault if you have poor quality, it is a management problem. It has been shown many times that workers will do a quality job if they are given the processes and tools to do a quality job. Nobody wants to build junk!

Good quality doesn’t have to cost. Doing the job right the first time saves money in the long run. I would love to know what Airstream wastes on repairs that would not be required if they did the job right the first time.
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Old 02-01-2007, 12:07 PM   #42
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Well said.
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