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Old 08-06-2005, 04:13 PM   #1
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11,000 BTU AC and Honda EU2000

Need some advice here folks.

The air-conditioner literature for our Bambi's 11,000 BTU unit says it needs a 2500 W generator - period. I guess I have always questioned this - it runs great on a 15 AMP circuit from my garage while sharing the power with the fridge on AC and any other single thing I might run on AC in the trailer (TV/DVD, Vacuum cleaner, etc).

So.

We stopped in to check out a Honda EU2000 when returning home from a (hot) trip with Bambi in tow. They are on sale. Bottom line seems to be that the EU2000 runs the AC just fine. The generator grunts when kicking in but settles down almost immediately (within a couple of seconds) and runs smoothly thereafter. In-the-trailer voltage remains stable at 123 Volts. Eco-throttle seems to cause it some grief - it will cut out on overload when the compressor kicks in - but with the eco-throttle dis-engaged there really doesn't appear to be an issue (based on my non-educated logic).

My question - can I consider the EU2000 a serious choice? - or am I asking for problems?

Thanks much for any advice you can give.

(Hot out there ain't it! - and I live in the north!!!)


Jay
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Old 08-06-2005, 05:21 PM   #2
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If the unit states it needs 2500w generator and if the eu2000 is rated at 2000 watts (which I believe it is, but 2000 watts peak), the answer would be that it will work, but I would guess that the brownout the compressor initiates (which is the grunting you're hearing when it starts) at startup would eventually damage the compressor shortening it's life.
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Old 08-06-2005, 07:08 PM   #3
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There are several indepth discussions about generators - particularly running 2 2000's in parallel.

Check here

and here for a start. You could also use the search tool for more info...
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Old 08-06-2005, 08:47 PM   #4
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The Honda EU2000i is rated at 1600 watts continuous and 2000 watts peak. 1600 watts = 123 volts at 13 amps. So if your current draw is over 13 amps continuous, you are overtaxing the generator. You should NOT run the gen on Eco Throttle when you have a high current draw on startup. That drops the voltage, which ups the current, which burns up the motor windings.
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Old 08-07-2005, 08:26 AM   #5
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Thanks for the advice – and thanks Janet for the links – you’re right – there is a wealth of information available on this topic and I feel a little sheepish for not having looked it up before posting. I spent a large chunk of last evening reviewing much of what has already been discussed several times – and at length.

A quick summary of everything I read would be: …. maybe yes, maybe no.

The technical evidence seems clear.

The 11,000 BTU AC needs a minimum 2500 watts for its start-up cycle – end of story. To use a 2,000 watt unit is to use it at your peril – you might get away with it – but might also suffer the pain of some longer term problems with the AC (Silvertwinkie: your advice is consistent with pretty much all of those who seem to know electricity).

But there is also some anecdotal evidence.

There are folks out there that have already taken the risk (thanks for your own experience Pick) – and at least from what I was able to read – I couldn’t find anyone that actually had any perils to report.

So my decision appears self-evident: ….. maybe yes, maybe no.

Damn.

I’m going to have to fall back on other criteria:

My logic says that 2 EU2000’s are just out of the question – its one or none - our home geography and travel habits mean that 80% of our camping does not involve sweltering summertime temperatures (this year being an exception) and that the 20% that does can be usually be worked around – in fact – an EU1000 with a fantastic fan is really the way to go.

Course there is that group of stem cells that keeps whispering: “… just get the damn thing – take the risk on a single EU2000 …. when its hot – its hot … get it now!”

H’mmm … I have to admit – if we hadn’t listened to those stem cells when shopping for our trailer two years ago we’d be hauling a 17 foot Bigfoot now instead of a 19 foot Bambi ….

Our next excursion is less than two weeks away – we’re already committed for 6 nights – there is no electricity available – and its one of the few times that we will not have an alternative. Forecast for the next couple of days at least is for more hot weather ….

What to do …..


Stay tuned.


Jay
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Old 08-07-2005, 08:58 AM   #6
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rangerjay--just courious what you mean by,"my logic says that 2 eu2000's are just out of the question". If it's because of finances I understand, but being the owner of 2 with a parallel hookup I can tell you it's a really nice setup. It allows you to run one for light loads, coffee pot , battery charger, fans,etc and the second one for ac, micro and heaver loads if and when you need then. You don't have to run both at the same time unless you need the power. There size and weight make transporting them easier plus fuel consumption is minimal.-----pieman
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Old 08-07-2005, 09:14 AM   #7
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Yea, I see what you mean. I too am in the same boat and have been thinking about it for at least a year now.

One thing that could sway my decsion is what Pick did. Pick found a propane converstion kit for the EUs and to me that would make a BIG difference for me since then I could see hauling two 2000s since I wouldn't have to lug a lot of fuel as I already have lots of propane with me anyway. But I will caution you, the conversion, if done by yourself, isn't for the mechanically challenged.
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Old 08-07-2005, 09:18 AM   #8
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PS- Let me qualify my remarks about hauling a lot of fuel as after I read my comments I know the Hondas are very fuel efficent.

I have a Suburban, so hauling fuel in the truck is out of the question. Also hauling it in the Safari is out of the question. Using a siphon type device to take it out of the tank of the burb is a neat work around, but where do I put the gas fumed hose, the Suburban or the Safari? That's one of the reasons I liked Picks propane kit. To me I can haul the EU(s) in the Suburban or the Safari, and no fumes or nasty gas smells, esp putting them into storage tubs...no worries about gas spillage, etc too.
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Old 08-07-2005, 09:20 AM   #9
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BTW, here is the link to Picks conversion:

http://www.airforums.com/forum...ane+conversion

BTW, looking at the site Pick links to, there is also a Yamaha gen that is has the ability to run on propane from the factory without mods. Not sure if they have the same par ability of the Hondas, but it might be worth looking at.....

http://www.yamaha-propane-natural-gas-generators.com/

In your case Jay, this might be an all around winner.....

http://www.yamaha-propane-natural-ga...om/ef2800i.htm
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Old 08-07-2005, 10:00 AM   #10
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Hi Mike,

When I say "2 EU2000 are just out of the question" I'm thinking of two things:

First, and most important, is our tow vehicle: the Pathfinder is a smaller tow vehicle. Although we are within it's capacities, and I am happy with how it performs, I remain very weight and space conscious - we carry what we need - but nothing more.

Second is cost: our critical need for an airconditioner is pretty nominal - we are almost always on a lake in a wooded setting - rarely out in the open, under the sun, without an opportunity to "have a dip" if we needed one. Public campgrounds in Northwestern Ontario do not often fill - when heat conditions becomes oppressive then there is almost always the alternative to find a park where you can say: "I'll have a campsite with electricity". For us it just doesn't make sense to spend that kind of money to have a second EU2000 "on standby" for the rare event that it is the only alternative. I suppose that some might call this cheap - but I'd prefer to say that "the need for a second unit isn't indicated by the cost/benefit analysis". Our extended trips have always been in the off-season - and summer-like heat conditions, at least so far, haven't been an issue.

From what I've read in the different threads on this topic, and what I experienced during our EU2000 "test drive", I think I would feel comfortable with a single unit - the risk seems marginal for the number of times we would be challenging it. But quite honestly I still haven't ruled out an EU1000 with a fantastik fan as a realistic choice.

Thanks,


Jay
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Old 08-07-2005, 10:09 AM   #11
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Silvertwinkie,

Thanks for the links - I'll have a look at them later today and see if maybe that propane conversion kit really might be the answer.

Jay
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Old 08-07-2005, 10:12 AM   #12
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When I ran my A/C on the EU2000i, I did it just to see if it would do it. I only did it once and for a half hour, on low fan, with the Univolt off. If I need to run the A/C in a boondocking or emegency hurricane situation, I'll bring out the big gun, a Generac 7500XL.

I use the Honda while boondocking, for keeping the fridge going, battery charged and watching TV.
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Old 08-07-2005, 02:32 PM   #13
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rangerjay---one thing to concider when thinking of propane for fuel--you will reduce the output of you gen as propane has less BTU's , hence less horse power, 2nd is consumption, you get less running time on a gallon of propane than gasoline. If a 2000 will barely run an ac on gas it is unlikely it will do it at all on propane. a 30 lb bottle of propane will weigh nearly as much as a second 2000.----something to concider. Pieman
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Old 08-07-2005, 02:39 PM   #14
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Thumbs down Fantastic Fan

Hello Jay.. We have 2 Fantastic fans put in at the factory.. best thing we have done to the trailer.. can run them both for 8 hours and hardly drop the battery at all.. I would highly recommend having them.. Annie
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Old 08-07-2005, 03:21 PM   #15
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This unit on propane should clearly run a 2000watt A/C unit alone:

http://www.yamaha-motor.com/outdoor/...43/0/home.aspx

Or two of these in par (on propane):

http://www.yamaha-motor.com/outdoor/...75/0/home.aspx

Additionally, all that I've read seems to indicate that a 20lb tank of propane is the equiv of 5 gallons of gasoline FWIW. One of the selling points for me is that I don't have to lug tanks of gasoline around. I can just use the tanks on the Airstream which currently I have about 60lbs (approx) on board at any given time.
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Old 08-08-2005, 06:53 PM   #16
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Did a search through RV.Net on whether a single EU2000 generator could power an 11,000 BTU AC. There appears to be quite a few more people who have tried to match the two - with a fairly clear pattern of results.

A single 2000 W generator has trouble with older AC's - pretty much end-of-story - in some cases just a no-go from the start, in others a no-go at high temperatures or at altitude. Any reports of difficulty just indicated that the generator wouldn't do the job - there were not any reports of damage to AC's. With newer AC's there seems to be pretty good success - folks seem pretty pleased with the match - a couple folks even claim to be runing their 13,500 BTU AC's with a single EU2000 (not suggesting this is a good idea).

I'm starting to feel more and more comfortable with the thought that a single EU2000 should will run our Bambi's 11,000 BTU AC just fine, however; still grappling with the question of whether the AC is a real need - or not. In any event, tomorrow I will be making the trek up the highway to have a look at them both again (the EU2000 and the EU1000). Will also be looking at the Yamaha EF1000iS - seem like a pretty impressive little unit - its smaller, lighter, quieter, more fuel efficient, less expensive and has double the warranty period of the Honda - I'm surprised the Honda seems such a universal choice.

Have yet to look up the information on propane conversions.


Jay
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Old 08-08-2005, 07:38 PM   #17
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Quote:
rangerjay---one thing to concider when thinking of propane for fuel--you will reduce the output of you gen as propane has less BTU's , hence less horse power, 2nd is consumption, you get less running time on a gallon of propane than gasoline. If a 2000 will barely run an ac on gas it is unlikely it will do it at all on propane. a 30 lb bottle of propane will weigh nearly as much as a second 2000.
A Honda EU inverter series generator is unlike a standard generator. It does not have to run at and maintain 3600 rpm to produce 60 cycle alternating current. Because of it's inverter technology, the engine can run at any speed and produce the same voltage and frequency. The engine speed increases to produce more current. I have not noticed a reduction in power on propane. As far as consumption, the difference is little to none on a generator that small. You will get MUCH longer runtime on a 20 or 30 lb gas bottle than the EU's 1 gallon gas tank. My Airstream has 2-30 pound gas bottles. If we are lucky, we might use 1/2 bottle per camping season, for hot water, cooking and heating. While fulltiming, the quickest I used a bottle was 8 days, with water heater running all the time, using the furnace every night, and cooking on the stove twice a day.
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Old 08-08-2005, 07:45 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie
This unit on propane should clearly run a 2000watt A/C unit alone:

http://www.yamaha-motor.com/outdoor/...43/0/home.aspx
I followed the link but the EF2800i is not shown in the charts as sufficient for a 10,000 BTU AC.
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Old 08-12-2005, 08:08 AM   #19
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Must be retirement – but I’ve taken more time to buy this generator than it took to purchase my last home. In any event – had a good day reviewing, on site, both the Yamaha and Honda generators – was also able to spend some serious time with a propane installer regarding conversions.

At the end of the day I wimped out on the Honda 2000 – now own a nice Airstream blue Yamaha 1000 – it won’t run the AC but seems more than adequate to do everything else. At the end of the day I just couldn’t justify the extra expense – and the 1000 is a better fit in the vehicle.

Had a great discussion regarding propane conversions. Turns out that the mechanic I was talking to had been a propane installer at Superior Propane for over 20 years – retired from that organization – and became the chief mechanic at a large shop specializing in farm equipment, marine equipment and small engines – which is where I purchased the generator. Much of the information that was available on this and other threads was confirmed – especially noted was that there is a small reduction in power when using propane – he suggested that a propane conversion was not appropriate if the application was going to be pushing the limits of the generator. Another point that I hadn’t heard before is that after-market propane conversions can occasionally cause a lot of grief – most don’t – but when they do you will very likely end up getting rid of the unit. His advice was to not consider an after-market conversion unless there was a compelling reason to do so – and if there was good reason to consider propane, and you had the opportunity, then look at purchasing a factory propane unit. As far as the desire to not carry a gas can around his advice was simple – get a siphon to take it directly from the vehicle. I found it refreshing that he was so up front with his advice – especially since his shop stood to do the conversion (he did however, convince me to put in trailer connections for the propane stove and BBQ – and get away from hauling around my littler 5 pounder).

The Yamaha will get its first test on a 6 night outing in a week or so – followed by a 5 week road trip beginning in September. Hope I’m as pleased at the end of both trips as I am now.

Only one problem - my kids have seen it - and were pretty impressed. They inherited (claimed) our old pop-up - I can see the wheels turning.

Thanks all for your help – and patience.

Jay
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Old 08-12-2005, 08:57 AM   #20
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I'm sure the Yamaha will work fine for you. I use my Honda EU2000i to charge the trailer batteries, which your Yamaha will do just fine. I would need a second Honda to run the A/C and so far I have been too cheap to buy another one.
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