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Old 01-29-2006, 02:16 PM   #15
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65gt and others

while time passed between post 1 and 2...i don't see any differences in the 2 posts.....more like a bump. no info has been posted to describe the project or structure, or anything really except to's coming along.....

first post mentioned adm rights to those who do help with setup....and i was just wondering about who on the sign-up list understands or is setting up the project.

i don't see any thing new there to now suggest "ok, let's get the content folks on board now" i've just been asking an extension of the question airstream25 posted.....

now it reads like andyr is doing all the backend work....which is fine.

being a moderator here or post whor3 in the forums, isn't the same skill set as having adm rights for a wiki site....

anyone posting big blocks of knowledge to a wiki (or this wiki) needs to understand what happens to the info.....and who now 'owns' it.....

true experts, historians and so on who have equity in their content should understand what happens to their content.

as for mistakes being corrected in real time making everything better........suppose a "how-to" electrical topic has a dangerous error, and someone uses it....only to toast their trailer or themselves......then a few days later the topic is "fixed"..........on the wiki.......

that entire issue, is one of the many key differences between printed books and vapor publishing....

also note the number of forum members with real content equity (like the a/s life guy and others) who no longer post much but instead have their on blogs, website and so on....

please understand that a wiki isn't an end product of any is part of a sequence from list servs to forums to wikis to ?????.......

where the hypertexting and archiving tools improve. some content migrates some doesn't and at each increment new restrictions, licenseing rights and ownership rules essentially what is a group of folks exchanging ideas.....and having that exchange increasing 'owned' in some way by someone.......


btw b'cup.....

surely i haven't seen yours.....i make a point of almost never clicking on links embedded in signatures......maybe i'm missing something i really need to know......but mostly i'm avoiding contacts that carrry bugs and other debris....

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Old 01-29-2006, 03:41 PM   #16
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in regards to the matter of errors, Nature printed a study on this recently. The conclusion, if I remember correctly, was that wikipedia was somewhat more reliable than the encyclopedia brittanica. You can see wikipedia's response at

another column in Nature has some thoughts that may be pertinent to this thread

The problems of correct information or even intellectual integrity are not easy ones to solve. Even highly regarded journals have had their problems.
The whole concept of peer review depends upon thorough vesting by many eyes and that is what a wiki can provide.

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Old 01-29-2006, 04:18 PM   #17
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hi bryan and others....

thanks for the links to nature...i had seen those pieces but forgotten where. there are many issues with printed peer review and too many publications with too few qualified reviewers..... and it is a long step from basic science to applied science. again the wikipedia is a fun, quick place to look up a topic......but i sure wouldn't act based on reading there....

you are correct in suggesting a wiki can provide many eyes for review....but those eyes need to attached to brains with content.....and context.

i last used the e.b. in 1970....or so, but i think it would be a nice place now to look up basic facts about history, people and other finished issues.....i'm not surprised the wiki is no more accurate.....but with a 'who is that person and what do they really know' editorial board.....

folks need to remember the why/what of an airstream wiki.....
from post #13...
"In the end it is tool to help us capture knowledge in another form."

i'm not sure i need another form of capture for airstream issues.....
and my ego sure doesn't need another forum.....

as the nature piece notes..."blogging will survive as it appeals to all the exhibitionists" and my gene for this is very very now, back into the rabbit hole.

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Old 01-31-2006, 10:24 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by 65GT
I guess I've just got a little more faith in this wiki system, maybe a little more faith in the individual rather than the group. From my perspective it's more about components, time-lines, and some fairly solid facts.

My take on Wiki (or my interest) is to see a historical and complete shop manual develop. What's in my unit. What other units was it common to. What was it preceded by, what was it replaced with. For any component listed, what are its specs, its maintenance and repair procedures.
gt, just a couple of note....and since i'm likely talking to my more on this thread.

i'm confused my you text above.... if you have more faith in the individual rather than the group.....why would you support a wiki? open source work is ALL about the one individual.

if you interest is in a historically correct document, specs, complete shop manual, components, timelines, fairly solid facts....well most of this info has or is already done....histories exist, shop manuals have been written. component lists are available online (maybe not your model). aren't there already appliance manual from bargman to yatzi? from the solar makers to alcoa?

are factory folks gonna contribute....they've got the original dope...are some retired a/s or wbcci types gonna help?

is tour man don....on line here?

i do realize how smart people are here .....but a great example is.......go in the hardware store in jackson center.....and say something about an electrical component from the 70s-80s.........the guy that owns the hw store was the design engineer on the electrical systems he's got the real dope and can easily explain issues that folks here spend pages wormin' around....

will the people who have published the histories or written shop manuals or trailer repair put their own good work up? or will people snip it, fluff it, shake it 3 times and put it on the wiki as "free knowledge"

the wiki has been described here, by the boss, as
"another place to capture the knowledge......." and comes with licensing restrictions......and reuse limits....

wasn't it you who was making such a big thing of airstream inc/thor holding back the progress of and so on?

maybe i'm thinking of someone else....

and while i realize the furvor in which you are on this club naming thing......wouldn't airstream/argosy wiki be more descriptive a repository on these things... cute but ever wonder why the a word isn't in there?

i don't think posting questions about how/what/why this thing will work is the least bit negative....or pessimistic

wiki's aren't new in any way....except digital.

we have had open source/populist driven knowledge projects that have been extremely successful and watching programs rely on this group/collective effort. so too astronomy where new astronomical bodies are found or redefined by the collective eyes......and perhaps the most famous and useful of all........ the oed was offered up by a world wide collective of brains way before the digital age.

but successful projects like these had/have trained experts as the final filter....folks who can separate the the wheat from the chaf for everyones gain....without them we'd likely call stars astral bodies and no english word would have a useful history...

besides if i wanted to type something negative/ might be......

i'll put my wallywiki bumper sticker right next to my forums oval and tee shirt and rabbit ears...

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Old 02-01-2006, 04:01 AM   #19
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Free access ??

The text beginning with "Miscellaneous" below is some of the fine print pertaining to The Airstream Knoweldge Sharing Forums. It can be found under "Community Policies".

Lesson Exercise for Today:
Look particularly at the last two underlined sentences below and, in 500 words or less, compare and contrast those sentences to the concept of "Free Access". 10 minute time limit, start now.


Due to our policy of encouraging candid, open exchanges of views and the rapid distribution of information originating from many sources, the cannot determine the accuracy of information that may be uploaded to the forum.

We are not responsible for Copyrighted material that is posted by a member. To report a Copyrighted violation, please contact us. We will remove the content and notify the member not to post material that is Copyrighted.

The owners of this site have the right to change the policies listed above at any time. If policies are changed, all posts, threads and/or members that are found in violation of the policy can be removed, modified or moved at our discretion and without explanation. The use of the forums constitutes acceptance of these policies.

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Old 02-01-2006, 08:34 AM   #20
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As Buttercup states above, the information posted to WallyWiki will be licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivs 2.5license which allows free distribution of that information for non-commercial purposes.

As Fred highlights, the information posted to the forums does not follow the same license.

These systems may seem similar but function in very different ways. Please be patient and let us get WallyWiki going and then the differences will become evident.

I am going to close this thread because this topic is played out. Thanks for your input.

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