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06-15-2008, 05:12 AM
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#161
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Restorations done right
Commercial Member
1962 26' Overlander
1961 26' Overlander
Vintage Kin Owner
Currently Looking...
Baltimore
, Maryland
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 5,545
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I am boycotting the classifieds not because of the flip down, I actually like that. I am boycotting because every time I look at it I go into a rage. I cannot take looking at the ads for all the premium vintage units being shipped over the pond by EllieZ. It just drives me crazy to see this going on. Yes, Yes it is great they are not rotting in a field somewhere, Yes, Yes, it is great that someone is going to enjoy them, but these are all premium units. There are no ugly ducklings in the group.
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06-15-2008, 05:47 AM
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#162
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Usually Sleepy
1973 27' Overlander
East Haven
, Connecticut
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,155
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I smell envy with just a pinch of jealousy.
__________________
Skip
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06-15-2008, 06:01 AM
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#163
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Tramp Streamer
Commercial Member
1995 28' Excella
Artist
, at Large
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 2,002
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"tag" search returns "404"
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06-15-2008, 08:09 AM
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#164
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Rivet Master
1991 34' Excella
Princeton
, New Jersey
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,070
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TBRich
Don't know if this has been reported before or not... I am on a Mac (OS X 10.4.11) running Firefox... Many times none of the links on a new page don't work until I activate that annoying classifieds corner page thing in the upper right hand corner...Once I let that thing come in and out the links work.
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Thanks for defining this problem I was beginning to think I had a computer problem. I read your post and then went to test it. Sure enough links on the right side of the page do not work until the Classified tab comes down.
I have had similar problem, but can't duplicate it right now, while typing a Reply. If I attempt to move the cursor back several words in my typing, to correct something, the cursor will not set that that point. If I move further back in the post the cursor will take and I can then move it forward to the point I want to correct. As mentioned I could not cause this to happen while typing this post.
__________________
WBCCI 12156 AIR 3144 WACHUNG TAC NJ6
2004 Excursion 4x4
1991 34 ft. Excella +220,000 miles, new laminated flooring, new upholstery, new 3200 lbs axles
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06-15-2008, 08:28 AM
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#165
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Tramp Streamer
Commercial Member
1995 28' Excella
Artist
, at Large
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 2,002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HowieE
Thanks for defining this problem I was beginning to think I had a computer problem. I read your post and then went to test it. Sure enough links on the right side of the page do not work until the Classified tab comes down.
I have had similar problem, but can't duplicate it right now, while typing a Reply. If I attempt to move the cursor back several words in my typing, to correct something, the cursor will not set that that point. If I move further back in the post the cursor will take and I can then move it forward to the point I want to correct. As mentioned I could not cause this to happen while typing this post.
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The nav bar at the top of the page exhibits the same bug, links only work after the classified mouseover is activated.
Firefox 2.0xx
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06-15-2008, 08:52 AM
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#166
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Master of Universe
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Grand Junction
, Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 12,702
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Sometimes I'm a little slow, but I've figured it out, I think. If you are a "supporting member" (i.e., pay to play) you don't have to have the annoying sparkly classifieds thing—it's an option.
This further annoys me. First of all, without all the members, this Forum wouldn't exist. All members should be equal.
2nd: To give us an option—pay or be annoyed just doesn't feel fair. Isn't that close to extortion?
3rd: The way to disable the annoying sparkly thing has been posted, so why not just eliminate it and stop annoying some of your members?
4th: I know promoting money making parts of the Forum is part of the bargain and making money keeps this thing going, but I think it has to be done in a less in-your-face way.
5th: Since I choose not to pay, does that mean I'm a "non-supporting member"? The use of the term "supporting member" seems to have unintended consequences.
The unspoken contract here is we help each other—members provide the words, Forum provides the technical stuff to have the words online. Some parts of the Forum make money to provide the technical stuff. We all want to be happy and annoying some members doesn't help this contract function.
Which brings up another point—look over the member list and see that hundreds of people have joined and never posted anything. Since you can read this stuff without joining, why did they join? Why haven't they posted anything? What's not working here?
Rant over, truck to wash and wax.
Gene
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06-15-2008, 10:15 AM
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#167
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Rivet Master
1991 34' Excella
Princeton
, New Jersey
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,070
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As members, supporting and none supporting, we look at the Forum as a source on information on a subject of mutual interest. Often forums begin through the inspired dedication of one or at most a handful of individuals. Dedication will support the smaller forums and the members of those forums will have few issues if any with the operation of the forum. However as a forum grows so grows the expense of operation, software, servers, and time of supervision.
To meet this increasing overhead some of the early forums took the path of charging for membership. Let me tell you from first hand experience that is a path to failure. I was a member to an early forum, 1999, that charged for membership. That forum grew very fast in membership and general became recognized within its field. Riding at the top of the game for several years. As new, smaller, and none fee based forums on the same subject developed the original forum imploded. Members flocked to other sites all of which are still surviving.
Why do I mention this? Forums on any subject, started for whatever reason, if successful become a business. They have all the components on the expense side and can provide for all the components on the income side. So far the public, membership, has not quite accepted this and still tend to look at information gained from the internet as a right rather than an expense. Those operators of a forum have to maintain a balance between covering expenses and not projecting the image of a business
Till now "Supporting Membership", rather than charging for membership, became the excepted method of covering expenses. This system has seen many forums grow rapidly in the last 5 or 6 years. Some having grown in membership and daily activity are now beginning to outgrow this means of covering expenses and are having to look to the all mighty “Advertiser”. The test of successful advertising will be how the members perceive it. If it is off to the side as with a Yahoo search it will most likely be accepted. If it is annoying and in ones face I suspect it will be a death knell.
Now both members and operators of this forum have to make judgments and individually decide how each perceives changes as they may be required. I for one would like to see more members step up and support the forum and postpone the intrusion of “Advertising” a bit longer than was the case in Advertising Free Cable TV.
__________________
WBCCI 12156 AIR 3144 WACHUNG TAC NJ6
2004 Excursion 4x4
1991 34 ft. Excella +220,000 miles, new laminated flooring, new upholstery, new 3200 lbs axles
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06-15-2008, 10:41 AM
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#168
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Rivet Master
Currently Looking...
West of Fort Worth
, Texas
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,699
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I'm a supporting member, I still get the annoying classified thing.
Regarding the comment above, I don't think it's some underhanded trick.
Dave
__________________
AIR #15800
"Wimpy" 1/2 ton 2002 GMC Sierra 4X4 Z-71 Gasser
2000 Safari SS 25'
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06-15-2008, 12:08 PM
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#169
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Master of Universe
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Grand Junction
, Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 12,702
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Fyrzowt, go to your profile page, then the tab "About Me" and at the bottom of all the things you can change is one for supporting members to eliminate the classified thing. At least that's how I interpret it.
I don't think any of it is an "underhanded trick" nor do I think Howie said that either. I do think it's a mistake. If I didn't think mistakes couldn't be changed I'd not bother ranting, explaining, or whatever.
Gene
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06-15-2008, 12:40 PM
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#170
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Rivet Master
1973 23' Safari
1977 23' Safari
2018 25' Flying Cloud
Palmer Lake
, Colorado
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,092
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrawfordGene
...I've figured it out, I think. If you are a "supporting member" (i.e., pay to play) you don't have to have the annoying sparkly classifieds thing—it's an option.
This further annoys me. First of all, without all the members, this Forum wouldn't exist. All members should be equal.
...
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Gene, you're a valued member, but I can't agree with you on this one. Yes, all members are valued, but the forum wouldn't exist without some method of support, whether donations, advertising, or some other method. Some other method might be to go back to something like the old karma system and give free supporting memberships to the top 3% of the active posters, judged by the quality of their posts, not the frequency (that's sorta how the old karma system worked, sorta). What's an "active" poster--once a week, once a month? I don't know.
There may be other ideas out there that would provide another routes to favored status. Gee, what about being a moderator--is that in the same category? This is definitely a difficult issue.
Supportingm members "support" by making small payments, payments that are many times repaid by the value received from forum postings and other services.
Those members who aren't in the supporting member category provide "support" by allowing themselves to be subject to additional advertising--sorry, nothing is free, but this comes close to it. But est you think I missed one of your points, I agree that all members support the forums by posting their ideas, observations, and comments-- it's just that that is only half of the success equation for the forums.
Therefore, I my judgment is that we all "support" the forums. If the advertising or other features annoy you, I think you have the right to say so, and you did. But you also have the option to become a supporting member--your choice. I know for some members economics might be an issue, but the options are open to everyone.
This forum is so important to me that I made my initial donation before I knew there were any benefits from doing so. I continue to feel that way. I hope others do, too.
I also appreciate Andy's open-door policy that lets us vent--I've taken advantage of that several times myself.
Zep
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06-15-2008, 01:05 PM
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#171
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_
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, .
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,812
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrawfordGene
...All members should be equal...
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hi gene AND zep...
there IS history on these issues, just not in THIS thread.
and actually the thread with the most remaining (undeleted) info has been closed, but is readable....
here
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f138...age-28559.html
so how's you like to have ur name in ORANGE?
btw there was HEAVY punishments handed out related to the above thread,
and some honest, direct but UN-flatteringly true posts were deleted...
ask me how i know
many of us that have forked over $ didn't want the 'in your face' tag so thankfully the orange is gone,
and we can now turn off the "I GAVE MONEY" labeling...
BUT I DO like getting some extra features for the $$ side of my meager contributions....
and while you found the 'close ad' button,
turning it OFF currently DOES NOT work, 4me...
these forums have gyrated several times on titles, class issues, member tags and so on.
we used to have these exchanges IN threads, till someone got wacky or an insecure key master stepped in...
now i suspect the gatekeepers have these exchanges privately, since they are SO MUCH wiser as 10 vs 25,000....
here are a couple more of the harmless (but with some insight) threads.
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f138...ire-30450.html
and here is one that became funny thanks to zep'r the hijacker n zombie resurrector ...
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f138...-think-24.html
lastly IF ya want some insight (mine) into the active member stats they are here in post #5...
taking a cue from the zep i defibrillated a 5 year dead, thread...
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f48/...member-34.html
read these threads and SAVE what's relevant because old threads on these issues seem to vanish...
after linked for reading now.
we have 1000s of folks registered here, which may not be the same as a member...
who have NEVER posted.
they read threads and the archives and looks at pix and shop the classified.
i'm ALL for cleaning up use for the frequent flyers (as zep suggests) and have a love/hate brain on the $$ thing....
my understanding is....
the other forums in this family of communities (some MUCH larger) don't ask for or need member $$$...
yet.
cheers
2air'
__________________
all of the true things that i am about to tell you are shameless lies. l.b.j.
we are here on earth to fart around. don't let anybody tell you any different. k.v.
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06-15-2008, 01:35 PM
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#172
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Rivet Master
Currently Looking...
Colville
, Washington
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,033
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrawfordGene
Fyrzowt, go to your profile page, then the tab "About Me" and at the bottom of all the things you can change is one for supporting members to eliminate the classified thing...
Gene
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman
hi gene AND zep...
and while you found the 'close ad' button,
turning it OFF currently DOES NOT work, 4me...
cheers
2air'
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I found it, but it doesn't seem to work for me either. (I do like the new "multi-quote" thing though.
__________________
AIR 12256
Currently Looking
2001 Dodge Ram 1500
2001 Honda XR650R
Currently Looking...for an Avion Truck Camper (or a Classic Argosy MoHo)
"In regione caecorum rex est luscus." GP
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06-15-2008, 01:44 PM
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#173
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Administrator
1961 16' Bambi
Dallas
, Texas
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,025
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatPumpkin
I found it, but it doesn't seem to work for me either.
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I am still working on making that option live. It will work soon, I had to ask a developer about some template conditional logic.
Thanks for the input on some of the other topics covered. I will take the info/thoughts into consideration when evaluating some future changes. Also, please note the corner page peel no longer flashes.
Mac users, I will be able to do some testing next week when I am back in Dallas and have my Mac around (typically I am a Windows person). To make sure I understand, you are saying that link in the top right do not work unless you activate the page peel. Once the page peel has folded down and then gone back to the smaller state the links work? I see ArtStream said he was using Firefox 2.0 are the other using this or Opera?
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06-15-2008, 02:10 PM
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#174
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Rivet Master
1991 34' Excella
Princeton
, New Jersey
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,070
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id nothing either
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrawfordGene
Fyrzowt, go to your profile page, then the tab "About Me" and at the bottom of all the things you can change is one for supporting members to eliminate the classified thing. At least that's how I interpret it.
Gene
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As far as I can tell, as a Windows operating system and Fire Fox user, this option
If you have upgraded your account (more details) and do not want to show the Supporting Member enhancments (text below your avatar, gold rivet next to your username) click the box below.
does nothing. I tried it. It did not remove the (text below your avatat, gold rivets next to your username).
Also the option click the box below. Remove the Page Peel from the upper right corner.
did nothing either
__________________
WBCCI 12156 AIR 3144 WACHUNG TAC NJ6
2004 Excursion 4x4
1991 34 ft. Excella +220,000 miles, new laminated flooring, new upholstery, new 3200 lbs axles
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06-15-2008, 02:17 PM
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#175
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Rivet Master
1956 22' Safari
2015 27' Flying Cloud
Vintage Kin Owner
Conifer/Evergreen
, Colorado
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 12,702
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HowieE
I have had similar problem, <snip> while typing a Reply. If I attempt to move the cursor back several words in my typing, to correct something, the cursor will not set that that point. If I move further back in the post the cursor will take and I can then move it forward to the point I want to correct.
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I've had the same problem. That and the freeze up until I click the flashy ad thingie ~
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrawfordGene
Sometimes I'm a little slow, but I've figured it out, I think. If you are a "supporting member" (i.e., pay to play) you don't have to have the annoying sparkly classifieds thing—it's an option.
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Really? I can turn it off? How??? Do tell ~ or point me to where it says how.
I already tried this, to no avail:
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrawfordGene
go to your profile page, then the tab "About Me" and at the bottom of all the things you can change is one for supporting members to eliminate the classified thing.
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Shari
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06-15-2008, 02:21 PM
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#176
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Rivet Master
2006 19' Safari SE
Tucson
, Arizona
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,627
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy R
>snip<
Mac users, I will be able to do some testing next week when I am back in Dallas and have my Mac around (typically I am a Windows person). To make sure I understand, you are saying that link in the top right do not work unless you activate the page peel. Once the page peel has folded down and then gone back to the smaller state the links work? I see ArtStream said he was using Firefox 2.0 are the other using this or Opera?
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Andy: I'm using Mac OS 10.4.11, Firefox 2.0.0.4... That's correct, but it seems to come and go...I haven't been able to duplicate it today. Weird.
__________________
TB & Greg and Abbey Schnauzer
AirForums #21900
PastPrez, 4CU/WBCCI
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06-15-2008, 02:26 PM
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#177
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Master of Universe
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Grand Junction
, Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 12,702
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Andy, Let me get this straight—the classified sparkly thing no longer sparkles, flashes, or otherwise annoys?! You have been listening (actually, reading)! I haven't read your post wrong?
And, in case I have been misread or I miswrote, I don't object to advertising, I do object to in-your-face advertising. Over the years I have developed the ability to mostly ignore all other advertising unless I'm looking for something specific, so most of it doesn't bother me. I know the "suggested donation" isn't much, but ever since I bought our Safari, I have been shoveling money out and I'm getting tired of it (plus cheapness runs in my family). So far as the terminology, "supporting" implies there are nonsupporting members—I don't have any solution in particular. I do believe the term is unfortunate.
A nonprofit organization in which I am active debates about whether to acknowledge major donors in our newspaper—same issue. People should be acknowledged for whatever contributions they make, but should it be public? I like more rivets, and that is the same question, though I could make 500 idiotic posts (only 22 more on the idiot meter!) and get to be a "master". What feeds the ego? Orange names? Diamond shaped rivets? A bumper sticker?
I went back over all the links on 2air's post #171 and found these numbers he calculated from a year ago:
"zero posts......13,150 members
one post..........2,400 members
two posts.........1,100 members
three posts.........700 members
four posts...........450 members
five posts...........350 members
6-10 posts..........900 membersso
"that's 19,000 members with 10 or fewer posts
"11-50 posts............1,350 members
51-100 posts.............350 members
101-250 posts............250 members
251-500 posts............100 members
>than 500 posts.........170 members
also there are 1000s who have not logged in for 2 years or more..."
Why did they drop out? Has anyone ever checked it out—e-mailed them, called them, etc.?
Gene
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06-15-2008, 02:28 PM
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#178
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Rivet Master
1992 29' Excella
Currently Looking...
JOY IN
, Arizona
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 650
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net Zero Adds
I am tired of the pop add.Please fix it.Still will not mute in my cp.very annoying.if it ain't broke do not fix it.
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06-15-2008, 02:37 PM
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#179
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Rivet Master
2006 19' Safari SE
Tucson
, Arizona
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,627
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Wow. I thought this was a thread to report bugs in the new software.
__________________
TB & Greg and Abbey Schnauzer
AirForums #21900
PastPrez, 4CU/WBCCI
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06-15-2008, 02:56 PM
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#180
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Rivet Master
1992 29' Excella
Currently Looking...
JOY IN
, Arizona
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 650
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Quick Links
My Quick links is now not working.new post tab not showing.was not before.for 2 days.
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