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Old 06-13-2008, 09:25 PM   #29
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Modarch, The owners of the last Caravel I worked on wanted both grey and black tanks. The trailer had been previously modified to a "park" model and did not even have the original black tank. I had a grey tank made to fit under the bath sink using up about 2/3 of the cabinet. It contained grey water from the kitchen and bath sinks and held about 10 gallons. The black tank took up all the space under the toilet and the lower part of the adjacent closet. It held about 12 gallons. These were both made of black ABS plastic sheet heat-bent and welded. Since they were ABS, it was easy to use regular ABS pipe fittings to plumb the drains. The shower had to be drained directly to the outside sewer hose connection since I wasn't a good enough plumber to make the shower water run uphill to the grey tank and the owner didn't want the hassel of a pump. Still, everything could be drained through one sewer hose. All this made for some interesting plumbing under the rear of the trailer. I had a new metal pan formed to cover everything. So, as long as you're thinking of re-doing the entire rear floor, you might also think of adding a grey tank. Darol
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Old 06-14-2008, 03:59 PM   #30
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Good ideas, Darol. I just may do that.

Can anyone tell me how to disconnect the shower pan drain? I am trying to pull out the pan and I am not sure how to do this. Is the PVC trap glued at the bottom, requiring me to drop the belly and cut it loose??
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Old 06-14-2008, 04:04 PM   #31
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Yep, glued. I think ya gotta cut it. Look closely first at the trap to see if you might be lucky with a two-piece screwed-together trap. But I don't think so.

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Old 06-14-2008, 06:44 PM   #32
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Modarch, The shower trap is threaded on to the strainer you see from the top. You will have to cut the 1 1/2" black pipe close to the trap to have room to turn the whole thing and most likely will have to have someone inside with a tool to hold the stainer from turning. I've used the handles of pliers to hold the strainer. There's "goop" in the threads, probably dried, so it may be pretty stiff. Darol
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Old 06-14-2008, 10:51 PM   #33
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Zep and Darol- here are two pics of my vanity sink and one of my shower pan. It looks like the shower pan is the same setup with ptrap and drain connection as on the vanity sink. On the vanity sink I cut the ptrap off, and tried to rig a "tool" that was two lag bolts spaced on a 2x to attempt to hold the sink strainer still. It wouldn't budge. It bent my lag bolts! Is there a real tool made for this?

What do you guys think my options are here? I am not sure how to move forward!
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Old 06-14-2008, 11:46 PM   #34
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Both of those are screw-type fittings. The plastic part has female threads for the chrome-ringed strainer to screw into. Evidently the putty used to seal the threads has petrified. Since you'll have to replace them anyway, use a hacksaw to cut the plastic part in several places and chip it away from the metal threaded part. You may be able to save the metal strainer. The threads are standard 1 1/2" pipe threads. Is the shower pan out of the trailer? Hard to tell from the photo. Isn't this fun??? Think how easy the next one will be! Darol
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Old 06-15-2008, 12:12 AM   #35
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Darol- I have a buddy in town with a '65 Safari- and he said he was able to back his drain out using plier handles and a screwdriver as a lever. I didn't actually try this, I tried to be fancy with a jig I made. I need to try the pliers and maybe it will work. The shower pan is still in the floor b/c I couldn't remove the drain. Didn't want to hack it off w/o getting some input from you guys. It is fun, until you hit roadblocks like I did, but I just move on to something else. I know that since I have the support of this site I can figure it out eventually! I dropped the rear portion of the belly pan today and was happy to see that the subfloor was only bad about 3" from the rear. The black tank looks to be free of cracks (so far). I will let you know if pliers work tomorrow evening. I really want to not have to hack saw and would like to be able to reattach to the existing ptrap.

If I am able to disconnect the shower pan drain- can i just detach the thedford valve and lift the shower pan and tank up and leave the grey water sanitary lines below the subfloor? If I choose this route- not sure how I am going to address cutting a hole in the new subfloor where the grey water sewer line goes down below the subfloor...
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Old 06-15-2008, 12:16 AM   #36
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Darol- forgot to ask- can you get new pvc screw in extensions for the trap sides on these drains?
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Old 06-15-2008, 03:08 AM   #37
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Darol- forgot to ask- can you get new pvc screw in extensions for the trap sides on these drains?
I bought new drains and traps. I had the same problem you are having. Lucky you, your shower pan is separate from the sink. My shower pan, sink and toilet pedestal are all one piece.
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Old 06-15-2008, 11:20 AM   #38
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I am trying to figure out how to disconnect the black tank from the shower/ bath pan fixture. I can't seem to get the black inner piece out. It has two small grooves in it across from each other, but I tried to get it to back out and it won't budge. Any suggestions on how to get this thing out without causing damage to the black tank? See pic.
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Old 06-15-2008, 01:50 PM   #39
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That looks like the original toilet flange. Metal outer ring with rubber/plastic black inner ring. The metal ring was fastened to the fibergrlass floor with flat head screws, usually rusted beyond recognition. Remove them if you can, otherwise carefully drill the heads off and the metal flange should at least turn. The holding tank is threaded with 3" female pipe threads. The black ring has male threads. If you cannot get the thing to turn, you'll have to make use of the hacksaw. Cut the black ring "almost" through in three places around the circle being VERY careful to not cut into the plastic tank threads. Then you can pry, chisel, swear, cut, pry, chisel, swear until you get one section out. Then you can squeeze the other two sections away from the threads and pull the whole thing out. You can replace this whole thing with a one piece plastic floor flange with threads available at a good RV parts place or a plumbing store with a good selection of ABS fittings. When you put it together, just use some vasaline on the threads and tighten hand tight - just in case you want to remove it in the future and also to be nice to the next owner! Darol
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Old 06-15-2008, 01:56 PM   #40
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Sorry, but that sucker does screw out. That's what the two slots are for. You can make a tool out of 1/4" thick material about 3" wide and cut to exactly the width across those slots. Sometimes you can get it budge with the big Craftsman common screwdriver, but you stand the chance of buggering the slots.

If you break the black tank, you would have broken it anyway (unless some guru out there knows how to be some thread-ease into the joint--this is pretty much prevented by the flare of the fitting), no matter how you eventually got at it. I think it's safer to try to screw it out in place, rather than cutting the floor to drop the tank and fitting out the belly.

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Old 06-16-2008, 09:15 AM   #41
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As for the rot in the bath. Caravels have a nasty design flaw that lets water seep in from the rear bumper cover and saturate the wood floor. The hinge almost directs the water in there. If you decide to take the shower out you will have to at the very least, take the closets out. The bath was the first thing in during assembly. I suspect you will have to put in a new sheet of plywood back there.
While we have the shell off, we're rethinking the protection of the rear bumper. Can anyone think of a problem with adding another c-channel around the back of the unprotected plywood? Obviously, it needs to be electrically isolated to prevent galvanic corrosion and bedded in lots of vulkem.

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Old 06-16-2008, 09:37 AM   #42
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Wrapping the plywood might be a problem. If your vulkem seal perforates, you've added a nice enclosed area that will wick water and retain it, drying very slowly. On all my Airstreams, the shell comes all the way down to the lid on the bumper locker, so the plywood isn't visible. However, it is always wet from water collecting on the lid and then running under the plywood. If I were going to add some protection, I'd do an "L" rather than a "C", making sure the upper part of the "L" was inside the outer skin. The I'd vulkem only the "L" to lid joint, allowing any water that leaked down the inside of the shell to exit over the lid. Oops, maybe the "L" would channel that right on top of the plywood.

I think drain holes near the shell to lid junction would be a good idea.

Zep

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