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01-15-2005, 03:33 PM
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#101
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Rivet Master
1956 22' Flying Cloud
Durango
, Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: 1975 25' Tradewind
Posts: 3,491
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Steph
So you found the front outrigger broken... isn't that what started this whole project was the bouncing of the front and a possible outrigger broken - sounds like we now know why that was happening and you'll be able to fix it.
Ken
__________________
1956 Flying Cloud
Founder :
Four Corners Unit
Albuquerque National Balloon Fiesta
Rally
Vintage Trailer Academy - Formerly the original
restoration rally
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01-15-2005, 04:10 PM
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#102
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Rivet Master
1959 22' Caravanner
Atlanta
, Georgia
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,197
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Wow Steph your right into it.
Couple things of note.
The wiring for brakes is in the belly and that might include the feed line for the emergency brake switch on the tongue and jack. All wiring for running lights and interior items will be through the roof. So on you 7 wire plug the feed to change the battery and the brakes will be in the floor the other 4 (number 5 is the ground wire to the A-frame) will be going up into the front wall.
Before you put the floor in check the brake wires carefully. It would be a real pain in the butt to have to rewire after the floor is back in.
So do you think your broken outriggers might be from being over hitched or just loss of structure from the rot in the floor? What did the PO pull with?
__________________
1959 22' Caravanner
1988 R20 454 Suburban.
Atlanta, GA
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01-15-2005, 04:11 PM
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#103
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Moderator
1968 17' Caravel
Battle Ground
, Washington
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 12,253
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Yup, that's two broken outriggers, both on the same side in the front, plus lots of rotten wood - some of it I was able to easily break off by hand! Definitly could have been causing my problems.
Thanks for the headsup Greg, I just got a recip saw so I'll be cutting through those fasteners when I get more of the floor taken out.
__________________
Stephanie
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01-15-2005, 04:18 PM
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#104
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Aluminut
2004 25' Safari
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, Illinois
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,477
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Steph, I have kind of a dumb question, and I'll be the first to admit, I skimmed the thread since it's so long.
How long do you think you'll keep this coach? I recall that you really love it and that's why I'm gonna kind of say throw this out there just from the point of a couch coach here.
Given the amount of work you've done already, if you plan on holding this beauty for a long time, have you considered doing a straight body off resto of the entire floor? I mean from the pics I've seen, you are well on your way. I know it would add significant time to the project and maybe more $$, but I was way impressed with how well you work on cars that this sort of seemed like a good match.
If it were me and I had the skill set you do, I might consider it since you could very easily do it all at once an not have to revisit for a long time. My concern with the current setup is that you could piecemeal this issue, find another one in a few years, have to do that, when now, you have it pretty well ripped up, welders on hand, etc, why not just go full monty and lay a whole new floor down and do all welding at one time.
Keep in mind as I said, I'm playing the couch coach here.
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01-15-2005, 04:29 PM
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#105
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Moderator
1968 17' Caravel
Battle Ground
, Washington
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 12,253
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No problem, I can see why you'd think that. Actually after poking around I'm pretty well convinced the back half of the floor is fine, so I'm saving a huge amount of work by not pulling out the one piece fiberglass bathroom, and all associated plumbing. The work I'm doing in the front will be to replace the damaged areas which are confined nicely to the original front plywood pieces. The pieces further back are solid. My only dissapointment in confining the work to the front is I won't get to add a grey tank. But we can live without that, the blue boy is not that inconvenient to use.
We do love the trailer, and still think it's the perfect one for us (though others keep warning me the desire to upgrade to something larger will strike sometime). In fact we were just discussing if there were any interior changes we should make while it's apart, and can't think of any, beyond upgrading appliances. We spent almost four weeks in it last year on three seperate long trips, and really enjoyed it.
Lesson #1 from the cars, don't tear anything down any further than you absolutely need to! My goal is to have it ready to camp in again by spring. If we find more trouble in a few years, we'll just spend another winter with it apart then!
__________________
Stephanie
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01-15-2005, 04:38 PM
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#106
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Aluminut
2004 25' Safari
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, Illinois
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,477
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Makes sense to me. Being a couch coach, one never really knows what's on the playfield totally. Glad to hear the rear of the coach is all good.
As for the bug your friends told you about.....well, it bit us, but it was the kicking the dog dish that did it for us. Now Penny has her own little nook in the front of the Safari where she is comfy and out of the main traffic areas.
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01-15-2005, 08:51 PM
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#107
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Moderator
1968 17' Caravel
Battle Ground
, Washington
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 12,253
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I'm ashamed to say I don't think we took the dogs with us a single time last year! Even though I bought it so they could travel easily with us. Since we work at home and are with them all the time, it was so nice to get away from them now and then! And the little one has decided she doesn't enjoy riding in the car as much as she's gotten older. So making room for the dogs has become less of an issue, and the petsitters come take care of them instead. So hopefully the little trailer will suffice for the two of us for some time to come.
__________________
Stephanie
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01-16-2005, 03:34 PM
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#108
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Moderator
1968 17' Caravel
Battle Ground
, Washington
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 12,253
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Well past the point of no return...
I continued cutting out pieces of the floor today until the jigsaw blade bent, and then I bent the circular saw blade as well. I guess my technique needs work. It's the first time I've used a circular saw, so now I know what not to do! Anyway, I don't have any spare blades, and we're on the tail end of an ice storm today, so there's no going out to the hardware store.
Here's a pic of another big piece I got out, with a shot of the underside still covered in the spray on insulation. This stuff is icky, with what looks like mold on it, and most of it had broken away from the outer pieces I'd cut out so far. This piece was towards the middle of the trailer and was the first one I'd pulled out where the insulation was intact.
I'm cutting away the center of the floor to make it easier to get to the big patch in the front. I'm working my way around it, hoping to find a better way of getting it out. It's a good patch I guess, it doesn't want to come out easy! But there was plenty of rotten wood along the edge of it, so the whole thing does need to be replaced.
__________________
Stephanie
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01-16-2005, 04:09 PM
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#109
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Rivet Master
1956 22' Flying Cloud
Durango
, Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: 1975 25' Tradewind
Posts: 3,491
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Don't know if this has been mentioned - but hope you are wearing a respirator
Ken
__________________
1956 Flying Cloud
Founder :
Four Corners Unit
Albuquerque National Balloon Fiesta
Rally
Vintage Trailer Academy - Formerly the original
restoration rally
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01-16-2005, 06:52 PM
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#110
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Moderator
1968 17' Caravel
Battle Ground
, Washington
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 12,253
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Yes, someone mentioned it earlier in the thread so I went out and bought one! I've been wearing a respirator, safety goggles, earplugs, and leather gloves. It is one nasty, dirty job - I'll be so glad when this part is done!
__________________
Stephanie
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01-17-2005, 10:15 AM
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#111
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Rivet Master
1956 22' Flying Cloud
Durango
, Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: 1975 25' Tradewind
Posts: 3,491
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Taking apart is not fun at all, but I'm finding building/rebuilding new stuff is a lot of fun.
Ken
__________________
1956 Flying Cloud
Founder :
Four Corners Unit
Albuquerque National Balloon Fiesta
Rally
Vintage Trailer Academy - Formerly the original
restoration rally
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01-17-2005, 10:38 AM
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#112
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3 Rivet Member
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 201
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I'm afraid this is going to be expensive
Stephanie,
Please post pictures when you finish this job. We are still in awe of you!
The Paces
69 Overlander
WBCCI 7287
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01-18-2005, 08:29 PM
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#113
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Moderator
1968 17' Caravel
Battle Ground
, Washington
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 12,253
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Thanks, I'LL be in awe of me if I ever get it finished
Today I got another chunk of floor cut out. Now I am getting towards the doorside or the trailer, which has a couple more patches going all the way back to the fridge. Lots of screws to work around. Ugh!
I revealed this rats nest of wires. Some are even disconnected. Is there any kind of wiring diagram, or color coding to indicate to me what they are? I see the blue and white wires which come out on the other side by the Univolt, but there seem to be more smaller wires in a bundle that continue rearward. Could these be the signals and running lights?
Lots of nasty dirt and crumbled insulation in the bellypan, but no mice nests yet!
__________________
Stephanie
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01-18-2005, 08:31 PM
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#114
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Moderator
1968 17' Caravel
Battle Ground
, Washington
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 12,253
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Forgot the pic...
__________________
Stephanie
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01-19-2005, 01:08 AM
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#115
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Rivet Master
1967 24' Tradewind
Alameda
, California
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,570
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Keep it up Stef, I'm rootin for ya;
Until I finally got a good peek into the belly pan, everything that fell on me was potentially a dead mouse. I did a lot of inner shrieking. Banged my head on the frame once or twice and said bad words. But; no mice. I hope you're as lucky!
__________________
"Let's look Death in the face and say, 'Whatever man.'"
~ Hurley
ingrid
1967 24' Tradewind #19104 ~ Forums #4449
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01-19-2005, 07:52 AM
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#116
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Rivet Master
Commercial Member
1968 17' Caravel
2005 30' Safari
Somewhere
, roaming America
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,095
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefrobrts
I revealed this rats nest of wires. Some are even disconnected. Is there any kind of wiring diagram, or color coding to indicate to me what they are?
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These are the connections from your trailer umbilical line (from the hitch). They are color coded, thank goodness, but the bad news is that I left my color coding at home. The diagrams on the Airstream.com website are not entirely accurate for our model year, I've found.
I do remember that on my trailer the blue wire was the charge line, and the others were easy to figure out with a voltmeter and the van connected. Just test each signal (left/right, reverse, brake) and measure the current. If you remove the cover of the 7-way plug you can see the colors of the wires and test the voltage right there. It's easy.
You might have some disconnected from corrosion, or because your Caravel lacks certain optional lights (like mine): backup lights and front clearance lights. These were apparently an option on the '68 Caravel.
The rats nest is a spot you should consider re-wiring, just for long-term durability. I found extensive corrosion on the connections on mine this summer, and it's a lot easier now with the floor up than it will be next year. I used marine-grade butt splices (from West Marine) and waterproof sealant on each connection.
The wiring might seem a bit screwy to you until you realize that 12v power flows from the trailer battery to power the break-away switch.
You'll also find an automotive-type circuit breaker in there, probably riveted or screwed to the belly pan. I'd replace it too (cheap at the auto parts store).
As far as critters go, we didn't find any mouse nests either but we did find a complete bird in the fridge vent and evidence of prior mouse visits near the wheelwells. If people knew what they were toting around in their vintage trailers, everybody would do a frame-off restoration!
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01-19-2005, 09:52 AM
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#117
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Moderator
1968 17' Caravel
Battle Ground
, Washington
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 12,253
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A BIRD in the vent?!?! That IS disgusting!
__________________
Stephanie
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01-19-2005, 01:28 PM
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#118
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Rivet Master
1959 22' Caravanner
Atlanta
, Georgia
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefrobrts
A BIRD in the vent?!?! That IS disgusting!
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We have a Beehive 24x24 inches in ours when we pulled the floor up.
I'll find the picture of it.
Let me ask you something:
Was ther patch the previous owner did in the same area where the outriggers were broken?
I bet the patch was seamed along the frame rail. If so then it was a weak point. The frame rail is a fulcrum point. If the plywood extended all the way to the center then lapped to join the other section of plywood it would put less stress on the outriggers.
__________________
1959 22' Caravanner
1988 R20 454 Suburban.
Atlanta, GA
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01-19-2005, 02:26 PM
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#119
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Moderator
1968 17' Caravel
Battle Ground
, Washington
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 12,253
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Actually so far one broken outrigger was under a rotted area, and the forward outrigger was under the very front corner of the patch which stretches across the whole front end of the trailer, about a foot wide. I am getting to two more patches on the door side, one forward of the door, and another in front of the door, and I'm interested to see how the outriggers are under them. I'll also be able to repair the step at the same time which is pulling away.
I am going to replace the floor with solid sheets all the way to the center, so there will be no patches after I get done.
I remember the picture of your beehive. It was huge!
__________________
Stephanie
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01-19-2005, 07:32 PM
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#120
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Rivet Master
Commercial Member
1968 17' Caravel
2005 30' Safari
Somewhere
, roaming America
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,095
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Here's a critter remainder for you
We have lots more pictures like this: mouse nests, snake skeletons, etc. This one is from the underside of one of the removed floor sections.
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