Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 08-25-2013, 11:16 AM   #71
Rivet Master
 
Lumatic's Avatar

 
1971 25' Tradewind
1993 34' Excella
Currently Looking...
Estancia , New Mexico
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 6,642
Images: 16
Blog Entries: 1
For a while I was the caretaker of a ATW 62 Ambassador, now owned by Robert Watowa. Talk about frame stiffeners, it had a whole other frame welded to the bottom of the original. The work was done in India in preparation for "the nearly impassable road in Afghanistan", according to the book about the caravan.
__________________

__________________
Sail on silver girl. Sail on by. Your time has come to shine.
Lumatic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2013, 11:36 PM   #72
Rivet Master
 
66Overlander's Avatar
 
1962 22' Safari
2016 30' Classic
Somewhere , in the USA
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,975
Images: 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyrc View Post
Have any of you guys that have had the floor open on a 60's trailer found added frame stiffeners inside the frame channel? Yesterday while sitting contemplating replacing the cross members I noticed the added 1/8" thick by 3" tall pieces of metal bar that are just over 5' long. They run from 10" in front of the wheel well to about 18" behind the well. They are back against the inner wall of the frame channel and are welded every four or five inches for the length of each bar.
The big question is this, when were they installed? Was it a factory fix for a 22' trailer that had developed problems or was it a production change before the trailer was built?
The bar is located between the paint marks in the photo.
Hi Wally,
I've only got one point of comparison, but my 1962 Ohio built 22' Safari did not have that extra reinforcement. I do not think that would be a likely repair after the trailer was built if frame problems had developed. I can only think that since your Airstream was built specifically for the photographer to take on the ATW caravan, it might have received some special reinforcements when originally built. Those plates inside the c-channel frame rails are one such reinforcement.

I believe your trailer has a special "double size" rear bumper that I have never seen on another Airstream of that era. Was that for increased strength, or could it have been provided to hold the sewer hose during travel, ala the round bumpers of that era that were found on Avion trailers. You'll have to let me know if either end opens to allow hose storage inside, or if the bumper is welded shut on both ends.

I see another interesting difference between your 1962 22' Ohio built Airstream and mine. Your "middle" cross members seem to be solid, with just one oval opening intended to be used for an in-floor furnace duct (although that duct is apparently not used on your Flying Cloud). My Safari only had this type of cross member in the rear most position a couple of inches forward of the bumper (where the shell bolts down, but where the furnace duct hole did not matter). The rest of my cross members appear to be be the lighter type with 4 or 5 large oval holes (one used for the furnace duct) across the full width of the cross members. Maybe your Flying Cloud got the "stronger" cross members as another "upgrade" for the ATW.
__________________

__________________
Joe
Wally Byam Caravan Club International Historian
Vintage Airstream Club Historian
WBCCI/VAC #6768

(Looking for a vintage 1960's fiberglass front window guard)
66Overlander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2013, 04:49 PM   #73
3 Rivet Member
 
flyrc's Avatar
 
1955 22' Flying Cloud
1962 22' Flying Cloud
1962 22' Flying Cloud
Yakima , Washington
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 200
The "double bumper"

Quote:
Originally Posted by 66Overlander View Post
Hi Wally,
I've only got one point of comparison, but my 1962 Ohio built 22' Safari did not have that extra reinforcement. I do not think that would be a likely repair after the trailer was built if frame problems had developed. I can only think that since your Airstream was built specifically for the photographer to take on the ATW caravan, it might have received some special reinforcements when originally built. Those plates inside the c-channel frame rails are one such reinforcement.

I believe your trailer has a special "double size" rear bumper that I have never seen on another Airstream of that era. Was that for increased strength, or could it have been provided to hold the sewer hose during travel, ala the round bumpers of that era that were found on Avion trailers. You'll have to let me know if either end opens to allow hose storage inside, or if the bumper is welded shut on both ends.

I see another interesting difference between your 1962 22' Ohio built Airstream and mine. Your "middle" cross members seem to be solid, with just one oval opening intended to be used for an in-floor furnace duct (although that duct is apparently not used on your Flying Cloud). My Safari only had this type of cross member in the rear most position a couple of inches forward of the bumper (where the shell bolts down, but where the furnace duct hole did not matter). The rest of my cross members appear to be be the lighter type with 4 or 5 large oval holes (one used for the furnace duct) across the full width of the cross members. Maybe your Flying Cloud got the "stronger" cross members as another "upgrade" for the ATW.
Joe I thought it was a great idea that they made the special bumper compartment. I was really disappointed when I learned that a sewer drain hose won't fit into the bumper compartment. When I got the trailer there was a very old garden hose in there. Who knows why they built a compartment that wouldn't hold the hose. Maybe it was used to smuggle cigarettes into Iran.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4062_0121_edited-1.jpg
Views:	45
Size:	163.8 KB
ID:	194377   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4064_0122_edited-1.jpg
Views:	48
Size:	132.9 KB
ID:	194378  

__________________
Wally H.
Parts needed
1962 Street side corner tub
range or parts
Dometic 50 or parts
flyrc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2013, 05:11 PM   #74
3 Rivet Member
 
flyrc's Avatar
 
1955 22' Flying Cloud
1962 22' Flying Cloud
1962 22' Flying Cloud
Yakima , Washington
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 200
Change the step location

Quote:
Originally Posted by 66Overlander View Post
Hi Wally,
I've only got one point of comparison, but my 1962 Ohio built 22' Safari did not have that extra reinforcement. I do not think that would be a likely repair after the trailer was built if frame problems had developed. I can only think that since your Airstream was built specifically for the photographer to take on the ATW caravan, it might have received some special reinforcements when originally built. Those plates inside the c-channel frame rails are one such reinforcement.

I believe your trailer has a special "double size" rear bumper that I have never seen on another Airstream of that era. Was that for increased strength, or could it have been provided to hold the sewer hose during travel, ala the round bumpers of that era that were found on Avion trailers. You'll have to let me know if either end opens to allow hose storage inside, or if the bumper is welded shut on both ends.

I see another interesting difference between your 1962 22' Ohio built Airstream and mine. Your "middle" cross members seem to be solid, with just one oval opening intended to be used for an in-floor furnace duct (although that duct is apparently not used on your Flying Cloud). My Safari only had this type of cross member in the rear most position a couple of inches forward of the bumper (where the shell bolts down, but where the furnace duct hole did not matter). The rest of my cross members appear to be be the lighter type with 4 or 5 large oval holes (one used for the furnace duct) across the full width of the cross members. Maybe your Flying Cloud got the "stronger" cross members as another "upgrade" for the ATW.
Another odd thing about this trailer is the "new" location of the entry step. For some reason the bracket was cut from the frame and moved to the rear more than 4 inches. The red paint marks are the original location of the step. What model had the door farther forward? It had to be one without the front windows.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	step location.jpg
Views:	50
Size:	298.9 KB
ID:	194379   Click image for larger version

Name:	Step location looking out.jpg
Views:	56
Size:	779.8 KB
ID:	194380  

__________________
Wally H.
Parts needed
1962 Street side corner tub
range or parts
Dometic 50 or parts
flyrc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2013, 06:47 PM   #75
Restorations done right
Commercial Member
 
Frank's Trailer Works's Avatar
 
1962 26' Overlander
1961 26' Overlander
Vintage Kin Owner
Currently Looking...
Baltimore , Maryland
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 5,547
Images: 2
Airstream frames are made by man. Man makes mistakes often. Most times they fix their mistakes. Often they blame others for their mistakes. I wonder which is the case...
Frank's Trailer Works is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2013, 07:43 PM   #76
3 Rivet Member
 
flyrc's Avatar
 
1955 22' Flying Cloud
1962 22' Flying Cloud
1962 22' Flying Cloud
Yakima , Washington
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 200
Exploded rivets???

Quote:
Originally Posted by 62overlander View Post
Airstream frames are made by man. Man makes mistakes often. Most times they fix their mistakes. Often they blame others for their mistakes. I wonder which is the case...
Frank I know you will have the answer. Is a rivet that looks bucked on the outside and like a hollow point 22 caliber bullet on the inside, called an exploding rivet? If the answer is "yes", when and who used them?
__________________
Wally H.
Parts needed
1962 Street side corner tub
range or parts
Dometic 50 or parts
flyrc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2013, 09:56 PM   #77
Rivet Master
 
66Overlander's Avatar
 
1962 22' Safari
2016 30' Classic
Somewhere , in the USA
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,975
Images: 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyrc View Post
Another odd thing about this trailer is the "new" location of the entry step. For some reason the bracket was cut from the frame and moved to the rear more than 4 inches. The red paint marks are the original location of the step. What model had the door farther forward? It had to be one without the front windows.
The Ohio Factory built 3 distinct 22' models in 1962, the Flying Cloud, the Safari Twin Bed, and the Safari Double Bed. The Flying Cloud and the Safari Twin had windows forward of the door, while the Safari Double did not. I am guessing that the window on the Safari Twin might hve been slightly narrower that the window on the Flying Cloud, so possibly your frame started life intended for a Safari Twin. The door would have been much further forward for a Safari Double. The Safari Twin theory is backed up by the fact that you told me your Flying Cloud had part of a furnace duct running thru the over opening on the street side of the frame cross members below the floor. This duct was used on both Safari models which had street side furnaces, but not on the Flying Cloud, which had a curb side furnace in 1962 (at least for Ohio built models). Either that, or it was simple human error as Frank suggested.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyrc View Post
Frank I know you will have the answer. Is a rivet that looks bucked on the outside and like a hollow point 22 caliber bullet on the inside, called an exploding rivet? If the answer is "yes", when and who used them?
Exploding rivets were made by Dupont from the late 1930's or early 1940's, into the late 1960's or very early 1970's, when production ceased. When first created, they were touted as labor saving since they did not require a second person on the back side, as when using bucked rivets. They were installed using an electric tool that heated them to make the charge explode. Their drawbacks included that fact that they could explode with too little or too much force, thus not making a proper joint, and since the backs could not be visually checked, you could not tell if this happened. Because of this, loose explosive rivets was a common problem. Apparently, the explosive charge also released corrosive chemicals that could cause damage to aluminum structures over time.

It seems that explosive rivets were the rivet of choice for replacing exterior panels on Airstreams in the 1950's and 1960's to avoid the need to remove the interior panels for access. Olympic rivets replaced explosive rivets for Airstream repair starting the 1970s.
__________________
Joe
Wally Byam Caravan Club International Historian
Vintage Airstream Club Historian
WBCCI/VAC #6768

(Looking for a vintage 1960's fiberglass front window guard)
66Overlander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2013, 04:41 AM   #78
Restorations done right
Commercial Member
 
Frank's Trailer Works's Avatar
 
1962 26' Overlander
1961 26' Overlander
Vintage Kin Owner
Currently Looking...
Baltimore , Maryland
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 5,547
Images: 2
Well there you have it Wally... I am betting it was human error followed by correction. I am human, so I might be wrong.
Frank's Trailer Works is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2013, 07:58 AM   #79
Rivet Master
 
safari62's Avatar
 
1962 22' Safari
1957 22' Custom
Vacationland , Maine
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 922
Images: 43
Dupont was first a gunpowder manufacturer so exploding rivets sounds right up their alley. I can also believe the chemicals left behind would have a corrosive effect on the surface being connected.

I like the effort made to double the use of that bumper and do try to figure these things out all the time. for me it almost never works, but I'm only human. Frank, don't under estimate yourself. I think you may be superhuman.
__________________
wbcci #3363
VAC - Region 1 vintage Club rep
New England unit
safari62 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2013, 11:01 AM   #80
3 Rivet Member
 
flyrc's Avatar
 
1955 22' Flying Cloud
1962 22' Flying Cloud
1962 22' Flying Cloud
Yakima , Washington
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 200
300 plus exploding rivets

Quote:
Originally Posted by 66Overlander View Post
The Ohio Factory built 3 distinct 22' models in 1962, the Flying Cloud, the Safari Twin Bed, and the Safari Double Bed. The Flying Cloud and the Safari Twin had windows forward of the door, while the Safari Double did not. I am guessing that the window on the Safari Twin might hve been slightly narrower that the window on the Flying Cloud, so possibly your frame started life intended for a Safari Twin. The door would have been much further forward for a Safari Double. The Safari Twin theory is backed up by the fact that you told me your Flying Cloud had part of a furnace duct running thru the over opening on the street side of the frame cross members below the floor. This duct was used on both Safari models which had street side furnaces, but not on the Flying Cloud, which had a curb side furnace in 1962 (at least for Ohio built models). Either that, or it was simple human error as Frank suggested.

Exploding rivets were made by Dupont from the late 1930's or early 1940's, into the late 1960's or very early 1970's, when production ceased. When first created, they were touted as labor saving since they did not require a second person on the back side, as when using bucked rivets. They were installed using an electric tool that heated them to make the charge explode. Their drawbacks included that fact that they could explode with too little or too much force, thus not making a proper joint, and since the backs could not be visually checked, you could not tell if this happened. Because of this, loose explosive rivets was a common problem. Apparently, the explosive charge also released corrosive chemicals that could cause damage to aluminum structures over time.

It seems that explosive rivets were the rivet of choice for replacing exterior panels on Airstreams in the 1950's and 1960's to avoid the need to remove the interior panels for access. Olympic rivets replaced explosive rivets for Airstream repair starting the 1970s.
Joe's statement " Apparently, the explosive charge also released corrosive chemicals that could cause damage to aluminum structures over time" is 100% true in regards to old #83. For some UNKNOWN reason, probably human error ALL the rivets from the curb taillight across the back, around the corner to the first bow on street side, are explosive rivets. A patch panel that is about 15" wide is installed behind the last window. It starts at the first horizontal seam and disappears up on the roof. There are rows of open holes under the drip cap above the hatch door and at the panel and first segment. If the floor channel didn't rust from the corrosive gas, the leaking water probably got them.
All this damage happened at the Calgary Stampede in the summer of 62 when the trailers first owner parked in a restricted area. The trailer was brought to the factory for repair and Airstream gave them a new trailer since they knew the Fran Hall needed a trailer for the ATW Caravan.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4069_0127_edited-1.jpg
Views:	57
Size:	255.0 KB
ID:	194453   Click image for larger version

Name:	Parch up to the roof.jpg
Views:	49
Size:	226.8 KB
ID:	194455  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4079_0137_edited-1.jpg
Views:	53
Size:	177.4 KB
ID:	194458  
__________________
Wally H.
Parts needed
1962 Street side corner tub
range or parts
Dometic 50 or parts
flyrc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2013, 02:17 PM   #81
Restorations done right
Commercial Member
 
Frank's Trailer Works's Avatar
 
1962 26' Overlander
1961 26' Overlander
Vintage Kin Owner
Currently Looking...
Baltimore , Maryland
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 5,547
Images: 2
in that last photo you might have a little more than chemical residue working. I have seen that same corrosion caused by water and stray electric, even being close to the chassis ground. Such damage can also be caused by mouse urine collecting in the insulation at the bottom of the wall. I have no doubt that the corrosive properties in black powder/salt peatier are no good for the skin either.
The great thing about aluminum is they grow it everyday. Airparts INC has what you need to replace it...
Far from superhuman Frank going back to making errors and hopefully learning from them, signing off.
Frank's Trailer Works is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2013, 04:50 PM   #82
3 Rivet Member
 
flyrc's Avatar
 
1955 22' Flying Cloud
1962 22' Flying Cloud
1962 22' Flying Cloud
Yakima , Washington
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 200
I'm BAD...Please forgive me this time

" All this damage happened at the Calgary Stampede in the summer of 62 when the trailers first owner parked in a restricted area. The trailer was brought to the factory for repair and Airstream gave them a new trailer since they knew that Fran Hall needed a trailer for the ATW Caravan".

My little story is all fiction I'm sorry and won't do it again.
__________________
Wally H.
Parts needed
1962 Street side corner tub
range or parts
Dometic 50 or parts
flyrc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2013, 04:59 PM   #83
3 Rivet Member
 
flyrc's Avatar
 
1955 22' Flying Cloud
1962 22' Flying Cloud
1962 22' Flying Cloud
Yakima , Washington
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 200
Side and Roof Patch

After talking to Joe this afternoon I looked at the colored photo of my trailer at the terraces and it looks like the patch was in place for the Caravan. That find makes me happy because it's one thing I don't have to worry about fixing. The patch I'm referring to is seen in a previous post photo.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	ATW 83 Above Terraces.jpg
Views:	60
Size:	88.1 KB
ID:	194490  
__________________
Wally H.
Parts needed
1962 Street side corner tub
range or parts
Dometic 50 or parts
flyrc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2013, 01:16 AM   #84
Rivet Master
 
66Overlander's Avatar
 
1962 22' Safari
2016 30' Classic
Somewhere , in the USA
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,975
Images: 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyrc View Post
" All this damage happened at the Calgary Stampede in the summer of 62 when the trailers first owner parked in a restricted area. The trailer was brought to the factory for repair and Airstream gave them a new trailer since they knew that Fran Hall needed a trailer for the ATW Caravan".

My little story is all fiction I'm sorry and won't do it again.
Yeah, probably a good idea, since anything we post will likely out live us. Next thing you know, your fiction will be quoted in some sort of magazine article, or elsewhere on the internet as fact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyrc View Post
After talking to Joe this afternoon I looked at the colored photo of my trailer at the terraces and it looks like the patch was in place for the Caravan. That find makes me happy because it's one thing I don't have to worry about fixing. The patch I'm referring to is seen in a previous post photo.
300 exploding rivets. So it seems your little ATW Airstream had some repairs prior to the ATW caravan. Being a 1962 model, it was probably built more than a year before the start of the ATW caravan. #83 was reserved for "Airstream Inc." in the 1963 WBCCI Membership Directory, so maybe the trailer was used by the company for other functions before being provided for the Halls to use on the ATW. Or maybe the Hall's used it to attend the 1963 WBCCI International Rally in Bemidji, Minnesota. During one of those pre ATW uses, perhaps some damage occurred the rear end that had to be repaired. I am sure the company wouldn't want an official company Airstream to start the ATW damaged.

So what? That's part of the story of your little ATW Airstream. I'd leave the replaced panels "as is" unless there is some compelling reason to replace them (e.g. significant post ATW damage). They are part of the history. That said, if you have loose and leaking exploding rivets, I would definitely suggest replacing them with new bucked rivets to seal everything back up tight again.
__________________

__________________
Joe
Wally Byam Caravan Club International Historian
Vintage Airstream Club Historian
WBCCI/VAC #6768

(Looking for a vintage 1960's fiberglass front window guard)
66Overlander is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
1962


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Around-the-World Caravan Thank You Marco Polo PeeWee WBCCI Forum 29 01-14-2011 06:05 PM
#7702 - Around the World Caravan? Lumatic Airstream History 14 01-01-2011 03:29 PM
Around-the-World Caravan Roster of Caravanners and Trailers PeeWee WBCCI Forum 18 08-19-2008 10:40 AM
Around-the-World Caravan PeeWee WBCCI Forum 1 09-20-2007 10:23 PM
Found this 1990 250 Classic in San Fran. Astrodokk General Motorhome Topics 6 05-04-2004 09:15 PM


Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:21 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.