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Old 03-02-2013, 06:23 PM   #29
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Hi Wally,
On my 1962 Ohio built ATW Airstream, the sub floor definitely goes under the floor channel. If I remember correctly it is about 88" wide and extends slightly beyond the ends of the outriggers, maybe 1/4" on each side. The floor channel was bolted to the end of each outrigger thru the floor. When the floor is removed, the base of the shell tends to spread wider a little and will need out be pushed into place slightly to rebolt the outriggers and screw the channel to the floor. In most cases, except where the end caps meet the sides, the ribs do not align to the outriggers. The floor definitely is part of the structure.
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Old 03-02-2013, 08:18 PM   #30
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Hey Wally looks like you have an overlap on the outrigger at bow #1, at least enough for bolting. What I used to pull the trailer skinny again was some orange ratchet straps. For better or worse I was able to screw some 1"s trap across the bows on both sides and used the straps to pull it together. Of course one side moved first, so it got bolted then did the othe side. Looks like the main rails are pretty solid, just the thinner guage cross members and out riggers. Jim should be able to weld those up nice. When you've got the welding done and the floor panels in I'm happy to come help you muscle the shell back into the right location. My fat butt is good for something!
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Old 03-06-2013, 11:09 AM   #31
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More fun ahead :-( Yesterday after I got all the many pounds of rat nest and crap out of the front belly pan area I found that there is mega rust issues in the first cross member that I presume holds the front anchor plate. If I have to remove it with the plate as one unit it is going to present a major problem because the floor is out and it is the only thing holding up the front shell. I guess I can do a temp floor install and then R&R the cross member before I Por-15 and finish the final sub floor install.
The next issue is what do I do with the main wiring bundle MESS??? Mine has been cut, taped, and spliced everywhere. Have you guys added a modern junction box on the inside wall up front?
I know advice is free, so fill the page :-) I'm getting a bid to have cross members and out riggers re-manufactured, so if the cost is O.K. I will be able to help anyone of you that might want light weight originals.
Thanks, Wally
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Old 03-06-2013, 04:58 PM   #32
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Old 03-06-2013, 09:02 PM   #33
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You do not need to go to the expense of having cross members custom formed. You can just purchase 14 ga. 4" x 2" rectangular steel tubes (like shown below) and cut one side off to make cross members. This is what I did on my trailer. I would think this would work for your front cross member that has the hold down plate as well as the other cross members. Definitely degrease it and use an etcher before painting.

I assume most outriggers could be made from the same material, but possibly with an diagonal brace added to approximate the originals. I did not have to do this on my trailer.



Hopefully your main rails are good enough to not need replacement or reinforcement, but if you find a small section that needs to be replaced, the exact same 4" C-channel beam with the upper and lower flanges tapered is still available (see photo below). There is a thicker and thinner version. The thinner version should match your original 1962 frame. You may have to have a close out plate welded across the open side of the C to make a closed beam at the very front or rear. I had to replace about a 2 foot long section of one of my main rails back by the bumper using this stuff. The rest, while a little pitted in places (but still covered in black paint in other places) was still strong enough to be wire brushed and then repainted with POR15.



Regarding how to deal with the front cross member and hold down plate with the body on, you should be able to clamp or screw/bolt small pieces of plywood to the outriggers where the end caps meet the straight sides and then screw the shell to the plywood pieces to hold it in place.

If you ever have to raise the shell slightly to get a peice of plywood (or the final floor) between an outrigger and the floor channel, you can carefully use a floor jack and a "big wooden tee" (see photos below). The "big wooden tee" would have a large flat section on the top to push up on the roof, ideally spanning from rib to rib, or at least across a vent opening. I'd suggest a peice of 2x8. Keep it oriented lengthwise so it doesn't have to be curved to match the roof curvature. The leg of the tee would then extend down to the floor jack. You could use a 2x4 for this piece. You won't have to raise it much to open the gap enough to slide the plywood between the outrigger and floor channel.



As for wiring, while the inner skins are at least partially out, you might as well replace it all. And yes, I'd recommend replacing the original 110VAC circuit breaker box with a modern equivalent and add a 12V panel as well.
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Old 03-07-2013, 08:25 PM   #34
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Joe are you talking about the front when you say I should add a 12V panel? Here is what it looks like right now Is the panel just attached to the inner wall. Where would you route the wire harness?
Thanks, Wally H

P.S...I think the cross member will need to be replaced
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Old 03-07-2013, 09:22 PM   #35
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wally, i apologize for backtracking but i've only just read the thread. Did the owner you bought your trailer from give you the photos? Where did the photos come from? Did they tell you any info that helps you trace it from the Original owners to them? I'm interested in the history. Thx.
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Old 03-08-2013, 08:52 AM   #36
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Photos and History

Quote:
Originally Posted by NJtoNC View Post
wally, i apologize for backtracking but i've only just read the thread. Did the owner you bought your trailer from give you the photos? Where did the photos come from? Did they tell you any info that helps you trace it from the Original owners to them? I'm interested in the history. Thx.
The person that sold me the trailer didn't know anything about the trailer. He bought it in Arizona and "flipped" it for a profit. I was tipped off by a friend about what I was buying and a brief history. There are a few survivors of the 63/64 caravan.
About two months ago I started tracking down Fran Halls surviving family and located a niece that had a lot of information about the caravan and 130 B/W photos. The color photos are from Airstream Advertising. Fran (Francis) Hall was hired by Airstream to be the trip photographer. One thing I've learned about Mr. Hall is that he worked for Disney and filmed the movie,"The living Desert".
I'll try to attach a 70 odd page pdf of Frans recollection of the caravan that he dictated to his niece when he was in his 80's. If I can attach it,I'll gladly send you the PDF and all the photos on a CD.
It's great to have people interested in the caravan. If you have LOTS of time read Scotts blog on this forum,
'63 Safari - It 'Bee' Traded (#8671)


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File Type: pdf Fran Hall - Around the World trip.pdf (250.0 KB, 72 views)
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Old 03-08-2013, 10:36 AM   #37
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#83 survived

When I look at these photos I'm thankful I have a trailer to work on and I'm not surprised at some of the problems I'm running into These photos where taken in Afghanistan just down the mountain from Khyber Pass.
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Old 03-08-2013, 11:41 AM   #38
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thank you so much for the copy of the transcript. i will read it tonight. or start it. wow! an accident on the trip. im not surprised. i wonder what they did about it. maybe ill find out in the pdf.... are there still dents in the front from this? Do you have more old photos? i love old photos!
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Old 03-08-2013, 04:35 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 66Overlander View Post
You do not need to go to the expense of having cross members custom formed. You can just purchase 14 ga. 4" x 2" rectangular steel tubes (like shown below) and cut one side off to make cross members. This is what I did on my trailer. I would think this would work for your front cross member that has the hold down plate as well as the other cross members. Definitely degrease it and use an etcher before painting.

I assume most outriggers could be made from the same material, but possibly with an diagonal brace added to approximate the originals. I did not have to do this on my trailer.



Hopefully your main rails are good enough to not need replacement or reinforcement, but if you find a small section that needs to be replaced, the exact same 4" C-channel beam with the upper and lower flanges tapered is still available (see photo below). There is a thicker and thinner version. The thinner version should match your original 1962 frame. You may have to have a close out plate welded across the open side of the C to make a closed beam at the very front or rear. I had to replace about a 2 foot long section of one of my main rails back by the bumper using this stuff. The rest, while a little pitted in places (but still covered in black paint in other places) was still strong enough to be wire brushed and then repainted with POR15.



Regarding how to deal with the front cross member and hold down plate with the body on, you should be able to clamp or screw/bolt small pieces of plywood to the outriggers where the end caps meet the straight sides and then screw the shell to the plywood pieces to hold it in place.

If you ever have to raise the shell slightly to get a peice of plywood (or the final floor) between an outrigger and the floor channel, you can carefully use a floor jack and a "big wooden tee" (see photos below). The "big wooden tee" would have a large flat section on the top to push up on the roof, ideally spanning from rib to rib, or at least across a vent opening. I'd suggest a peice of 2x8. Keep it oriented lengthwise so it doesn't have to be curved to match the roof curvature. The leg of the tee would then extend down to the floor jack. You could use a 2x4 for this piece. You won't have to raise it much to open the gap enough to slide the plywood between the outrigger and floor channel.



As for wiring, while the inner skins are at least partially out, you might as well replace it all. And yes, I'd recommend replacing the original 110VAC circuit breaker box with a modern equivalent and add a 12V panel as well.
Thanks Joe for all the advise. I tried to buy 14ga tubing but it isn't available in this valley.
Wally
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Old 03-08-2013, 10:10 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyrc View Post
Thanks Joe for all the advise. I tried to buy 14ga tubing but it isn't available in this valley.
Wally
Hi Wally,
Not sure how big Yakima is. Might have to go to a larger city. I bought mine in person (no internet sales) from a little hole-in-the-wall type shop in Pontiac, MI that sold steel beams and pipes of all types. My welder told me where to go to get it. Quite frankly it would have been easy to miss the shop if I hadn't been told exactly where to go. The shop had the tools to cut it to the length I requested and sold it to my by the inch/foot.

Before I talked to the welder, I called a few shops I found via an internet search asking if anyone had a formed piece that could be used for the cross members, but no luck. The idea to cut the side off the rectangular tube for make the cross members was the welders idea. I suppose you could use the rectangular tube whole, but could then only install the floor with screws. I wanted to bolt the floor down, so we cut one side off for access. Cutting one side off isn't tough with a grinding wheel, but a band saw would do an even better job if you have access to one.

I would bet that any larger city has a shop that sells steel like I found. There are always guys building equipment and race cars and other stuff that need steel. I guess you just need to know where to look.

EDIT: This place looks promising for having the type of steel tubing you might be looking for:


Yakima Steel Fabricators
Address: 6 E Washington Ave, Yakima, WA 98903
Phone: (509) 575-1570
Hours: Friday hours 8:00 am–5:00 pm

http://www.yakimasteel.com/about/ste...icecenter.html
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Old 03-09-2013, 09:28 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJtoNC View Post
thank you so much for the copy of the transcript. i will read it tonight. or start it. wow! an accident on the trip. im not surprised. i wonder what they did about it. maybe ill find out in the pdf.... are there still dents in the front from this? Do you have more old photos? i love old photos!
I have 130 "old" photos of the caravan. Here is one taken at Ankara Watt in Cambodia
Also how many men does it take to pull a truck and trailer through a mud hole?
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Old 03-09-2013, 09:57 AM   #42
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Howdeee Wally! I would like to throw in my 2 cents on the boxed tube... if you cut one side out, leaving a little of the corner creating a big "C". It will give you a great deal more rigidity than a little "c". Does that make sense? All four corners remain. Just my thoughts....
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