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Old 03-24-2018, 08:35 PM   #29
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1968 24' Tradewind
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Here is where I was at the end of the afternoon. My floor rot was in both corners. You can see the plywood I cut out on the right side of the photo. I still need to cut out rot in the corner directly under the breaker panel. The 2" or 3" inches that runs along the rear access door is also soft. With the black tank there I don't really have roof to make a proper splice. If I come all the way back to the next frame cross member, I will need to remove the skin on the curb side of the trailer.

Is there a way to remove just a few inches of plywood along the back but still make a solid splice?

What are the odds that the black water tank is good? I really don't want to drop it if its not absolutely necessary. What would be the best way to test it? I hate to fill it and then have to deal with any nastiness but maybe I will.

I was able to remove the lower skin on the drivers side without removing the cap but it was a huge pain. There was a hidden rivet underneath the cap and the adjacent skin. I was barely able to reach it to drill it out. It took a lot of frustration before I figured out it was still attached. I will not be doing the other side like that.

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Old 03-24-2018, 08:48 PM   #30
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Love this original tile.

I dug out some of the original tile under the tub and cabinets. It cleaned up pretty well. I want to make some accents with it. I might make some coasters and then coat them with clear epoxy. That will come much later!



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Old 03-25-2018, 08:07 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbj216 View Post
Aluminuminum: I did the same thing. I didn't remove the skins, I just pried them out a bit for access to the rear body bolts and body hold down plate.

VentureWest: I'd drill out some pop rivets and see how much you can see. You will likely be dropping the belly pan, and that will give you much more access to the bath floor.

David'
Thanks David,
I wrote a couple more posts. I had a little rot on corners so I needed to access the channel around the sides.

I really don't want to drop the belly pan and black tank unless there is a specific reason to do that. That reason for me would be a bad black tank. There is a chance I drilled through it the other day when I was drilling out belly pan rivets.

Speaking of the belly pan: It seems that it isn't a simple chore to drop the rearmost pan that is over the black tank. I drilled out all the rivets, but the middle belly pan overlaps the rear belly pan by quite a bit so I think I may need to drop the middle pan just to get the rear pan out?

Thanks
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Old 03-25-2018, 09:39 AM   #32
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Belly Pan Down.

I hereby vow, to never gain, tug and bang on sheet metal before making sure ALL rivets are drilled out. There is always that ONE rivet! Now I can see my galvanized box. I'll post some photos later. It's not that bad.
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Old 03-25-2018, 02:15 PM   #33
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The black tank from the top and the bottom.

Everything is out of the way. As long as I can keep the black tank I should be able to do a few things and button this up.

This would be my time do add a grey tank as well....hmmm.

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Old 03-25-2018, 06:03 PM   #34
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Black tank out and tested.

I feel pretty good about today's progress.

I have learned so much in the last 48 hrs or so. These things seem like mystery machines until you get them apart the first time.

The black tank is out and tested. It doesn't leak and the valve works great. The Styrofoam support is in good condition. This really gives me piece of mind that this will be a solid, long-term renovation.

I bought my galvanized angle and both of the steel support angles. I hope to get all that on tomorrow. I have run out of places to stash airstream interior components! This stuff needs to start going back in.

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Old 03-25-2018, 06:27 PM   #35
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You did have a busy weekend. Your black tank is completely different, and better than my 66 was. My pan was more rusted than your also. Glad to hear the tank didn't leak.

Hummmm: Gray tank. Airstreamers call this the slippery slope, or while I'm at it. One project leads to another and another. You will need a gray tank or a portable tank to drain wash water if you don't have sewer hook ups.

Glad to see the belly pan is out of the way. That is a good way to gain access to the things you're working on, like subfloor patching. I know of no good way to patch a rotted 3" of subfloor close to the C channel. It is best to replace subfloor pieces fully side to side, and splice them together underneath at a cross member like Airstream did.

David
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Old 03-25-2018, 08:22 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbj216 View Post
You did have a busy weekend. Your black tank is completely different, and better than my 66 was. My pan was more rusted than your also. Glad to hear the tank didn't leak.

Hummmm: Gray tank. Airstreamers call this the slippery slope, or while I'm at it. One project leads to another and another. You will need a gray tank or a portable tank to drain wash water if you don't have sewer hook ups.

Glad to see the belly pan is out of the way. That is a good way to gain access to the things you're working on, like subfloor patching. I know of no good way to patch a rotted 3" of subfloor close to the C channel. It is best to replace subfloor pieces fully side to side, and splice them together underneath at a cross member like Airstream did.

David
You are right about the slippery Airstream slope. We camp almost exclusively off grid or at primitive campsites, so it is hard to imagine not having a gray tank. However, we have a brand new family camper that is our main camper. It's a 31' SOB with a separate quad bunk room, and a big slide out. It doesn't have the charm of the Airstreams, but it is an amazing family camper. I guess I am just trying to create value in the Tradewind, if I sell it or rent it. At very least I am going to reroute the bathroom sink to the black water tank at the vertical vent pipe. It will be nice to always at least have the sink to use for bathroom stops or overnight trips. I think the extra water helps the functionality of the black tank.

You probably saw that I have the rear plywood cut out to the first cross member. Do you think it possible to slide then entire section in one piece? I was thinking I may have to 2 two pieces and have the joint over one of the frame rails. I need to leave the black water vent pipe long enough that I can get a fitting on it. I am afraid that if it sticks up even a little ways it will make it difficult to get a single piece of plywood in.
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Old 03-25-2018, 11:40 PM   #37
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Ron, I enjoyed our phone call. Youíve made some serious headway. Iíd ditch the old tile. Prior to 1971, it may contain asbestos. Regarding the rear plywood, mine was a shell off so Iíll defer to others regarding 1 vs 2 plywood sections. Brian
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Old 03-26-2018, 05:59 PM   #38
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Maybe your black tank can go in after the subfloor is replaced. You have to locate the center of the toilet flange and the center of the vent pipe. Once the holes are drilled in the subfloor, you can push up the black tank from underneath the trailer. That's the way I've been doing it anyway.

There are folks who can slip the entire piece of plywood under the c-channel and on top of the frame rails and cross members. There can be no rivet remnants, elevator bolts, or screws in the way. The rear outside "banana wraps" need removed. Then you need to press the frame down a bit and lift the body up a bit (carefully as not to buckle it). Maybe you can measure the "at rest" clearance between C channel and frame rails. I would expect this to be close to the plywood thickness of 5/8, or 10/16, or 20/32, or 40/64ths. Then you have to create a space like 7/8" to clear the plywood. Now "tap" it into position from the rear. Some folks may use a pretty big hammer to do this.

I spliced my rear subfloor replacement into three pieces using the frame rails as the support. Not the greatest method.

David
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Old 03-26-2018, 06:19 PM   #39
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Me again: I think the mid sixties Trade Winds have significant value in the vintage Airstream market. Not as much as the shorter Safari, Globetrotter or Caravel, but more than the longer trailers including my Overlander. They are the last of the old body style, they have some unique Airstream features, and they are truly lightweight for their size and tow easily. I believe they are worth the time and dollars to renovate.

I think it is important to make the trailer "travel ready" and reliable, or make it a factory fresh "museum piece". I think conservative and tasteful decorating is important. Some "artistic" types get pretty wild with interior designs that suits them just fine, but may not suit the ordinary vintage Airstream buyer making the trailer more difficult to sell. Only a few want an all black bathroom with stars on the walls.

Having a gray tank is an advantage. Without it you have to catch the dishwater and then haul it to a dump station. You are right that water in the black tank helps it drain better. I have routed my bath sink to the black tank twice now. But washing dishes uses quite a bit of water. And don't get me on taking a shower.

I'm just flapping my gums. As always, my advice comes completely free of charge.

David
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Old 03-26-2018, 07:06 PM   #40
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Me again: I think the mid sixties Trade Winds have significant value in the vintage Airstream market. Not as much as the shorter Safari, Globetrotter or Caravel, but more than the longer trailers including my Overlander. They are the last of the old body style, they have some unique Airstream features, and they are truly lightweight for their size and tow easily. I believe they are worth the time and dollars to renovate.

I think it is important to make the trailer "travel ready" and reliable, or make it a factory fresh "museum piece". I think conservative and tasteful decorating is important. Some "artistic" types get pretty wild with interior designs that suits them just fine, but may not suit the ordinary vintage Airstream buyer making the trailer more difficult to sell. Only a few want an all black bathroom with stars on the walls.

Having a gray tank is an advantage. Without it you have to catch the dishwater and then haul it to a dump station. You are right that water in the black tank helps it drain better. I have routed my bath sink to the black tank twice now. But washing dishes uses quite a bit of water. And don't get me on taking a shower.

I'm just flapping my gums. As always, my advice comes completely free of charge.

David
David,
I love your free advice. In addition to the insight, it makes me feel like someone is actually reading this thread. I am still debating the gray tank. If I don't add the gray I will just use the combined capacity method using the extra valterra repair valve. I see this trailer staying mostly on pavement and being used with full hook-ups or maybe one or two nights without hook-ups.

I agree that the 1968 Tradewind is very desirable year and model. I also think the open floor plan is going to appeal to a lot of people who aren't Airstream experts. I am definitely at the stage where I am thinking about the final finishes. I plan to keep most of the original interior with some minor changes. I shortened the curb side upper cabinet to allow more appreciation of the radius. I am thinking about cutting the closet down to cabinet height next to the stove counter. This would give the opportunity for some more counter top space and also give an even more open feel.

I'll write more about the design considerations in a separate post.
Ron
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Old 03-26-2018, 07:17 PM   #41
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A little rear end progress.

Well, I had limited time today, but I accomplished enough to feel like I am moving forward. I replaced the rusty, rear floor channel with a new 2" piece of angle. I think my welding maybe rustier than the piece I removed.

I cut my galvanized flashing to patch the black tank enclosure but didn't have time to seal or rivet it.

I also installed a new lower angle for the galvanized enclosure brace. I put everything in temporarily because we have snow coming in tonight. I will pull it all out and paint it properly when it warms. I am going to try some Van Sickle hardener in my Rustoleum when I paint, so that I can speed up the drying time and durability.

In the next week I plan to paint the entire sub-floor with some sort of paint. (maybe a porch and floor paint) I also plan to install the new charger/ converter and maybe the water heater.

I will be doing some quick research to see which route I want to go with those items. Electrical is probably my weakest skill. I need some good tutorials if you know of any threads.

I would also like to start prepping and painting the bathroom plastic and tub. I am still researching which product I want to use and whether or not I want to go all white or maybe a nice light gray and white.


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Old 03-26-2018, 10:44 PM   #42
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Introducing 1968 International Tradewind 24 Twin Restoration

Before you install the rear section of plywood, coat the plywood edge and in six or so inches on the top and bottom with penetrating two part epoxy to protect the wood from future water infiltration.

Regarding painting the entire subfloor, Iíd suggest thinking ahead to what flooring you plan to use. If you are glueing down a sheet of vinyl it may not adhere to the paint. Some argue the wood should be allowed to breathe Iím undecided on the best approach.

Regarding electrical, Iím having to learn a lot as well. So take this for what itís worth and consult a pro. Here are a few tidbits Iíve learned along the way.

Regarding the AC system, it is very similar to home wiring except 1) neutral and ground are not connected in the distribution panel inside the trailer (aka floating neutral), and 2) the late 60s regrettably used aluminum wire.

Due to fire hazard concerns from loose connections/shorts, some remove the skins of this era of trailer and rewire. I found several sections of burnt insulation behind my walls. If you pull the walls, rewire using 12/2 or 14/2 copper romax or BX cable (12 gauge for sure for the air conditioner, water heater, and microwave if not everywhere).

If you opt to continue to use the aluminum wire make sure all your connections are tightened and use aluminum compatible outlets, etc. While your rear interior skins are out, Iíd recommend you install a shore power inlet/disconnect on the rear street side so you can remove and store your 30 amp cord (that runs to the campground pedestal) somewhere besides the bumper trunk (away from the stinky slinky and offending dump valve)

The DC system often uses a daisy chain approach for lights and other low voltage items with some grounding to the exterior skin or ribs. I chose to home run all my DC circuits as poor ground connections explain the etiology of many RVers headaches. I also used multiple separate circuits to isolate future problems. Crimp connections with built in heat shrink are what the cool kids use now a days. Consider voltage drop versus wire size on long runs.

Grommet all wires that pass through metal. A step drill bit makes short work of installing new wire pass throughs on a rib. AGMs batteries are nice since they are often not vented to the outside like wet cell batteries require. Progressive Dynamics converters have a loyal following. I suspect you are not interested in lithium batteries or solar at this time but you might consider running 25í of black and red 4 AWG flexible welding cable (pretty cheap on amazon) through the fridge vent if you ever think you want to be fully powered off grid by solar. Zip tie a ~4í coil at the roof for future access.

Of course both the AC and DC circuits are respectively fused with circuit breakers and blade fuses (appropriately for the wire size) in their own distribution panels. Some opt for a combo box sold by progressive dynamics.

Read up of battery monitors (e.g. trimetric 2020), shunts, appropriate fusing, battery shut off switches for storage/repairs, surge protection, etc.

Other possible electrical system considerations could involve a relay and remote switches for the water pump (limiting power drain from the pump except when you need it to run), WiFi or cell phone boosters, back up cameras, USB charging ports, an inverter, tank heating pads, tank volume sensors smoke/CO detectors, coms cables like RG6/HDMI (tv) or RG58 (ham radio), speaker wire, UFO detection systems (kidding), etc. Doesnít sound much like camping, eh?

Donít forget that the AC thermostat, water heater, and some fridges need both 110/120v and 12v power to run. Some thermostats will also control the heater if you route two wires from the AC to the heater.

Mainly just tossing the above out there if there is future interest. It can be overwhelming but itís sure easier to route some of this now than later (especially with the furniture and some skins out). At minimum, lay a piece of PEX tubing around the backside of the trailer prior to resetting the tub. Itís so much easier to fish future wires through this than without it. Being able to easily run a wire from one side of the trailer to the other will come in handy.

Before you seal up any interior wall panel, coat the heck out of any rivets with Trempro 635 sealant. Donít bring a tube of silicone within 10 feet of anything aluminum. not joking... itís awful to remove.
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