Info on WBCCI numbers?

[Tabasco]

Originally Posted by 66Overlander

Quick partial response. The second digit is also not totally clear, but I agree that it is most likely an "0". This makes sense because the highest number assigned in 1963 was 10187 and the highest in 1964 was 12257 (with one exception). That makes a 10931 or 10951 appropriate for a 1964 Airstream since it very likely got it's numbers when new. Like you I am debating the 4th digit because it is not totally clear, but I lean toward a "3", but a "5" cannot be ruled out.

The first directory I have that lists owners for these numbers is 1966, which actually lists membership as of 12/31/1965.

In that Directory, #10931 is assigned to Col. Robert & Kay Orth, of Tacoma, Wash. and #10951 is assigned to Floyd & Marian Stark of Brooklyn, OH. Neither are listed as having participated on any caravans up to that time. Do either of those names sound familiar? If one does, I'll do some further research on that number.

Yes! Floyd Stark of Brooklyn, OH is the name on my manual, so it must be #10951. Cool! I'm excited to know what else can be found from that.

Thank you so much!!

[66Overlander]

Originally Posted by Tabasco

Yes! Floyd Stark of Brooklyn, OH is the name on my manual, so it must be #10951. Cool! I'm excited to know what else can be found from that.

Thank you so much!!

Floyd and Marian Stark are last listed in the 1973 Directory, still in Brooklyn, OH, still no caravans. I have no 1974 Directory, but #10951 is unassinged in 1975 and 1976. I have no 1977 Directory, but #10951 is still unassigned in 1978.

In the 1979 and 1980 Directories, #10951 is assigned to E Mac and Clair Mae Townsend of Fredrick, OK, no caravans. It is then unassigned in 1981 & 1982.

In 1983, #10951 is assigned to Harry and Martha Thetford of Greensboro, NC, no caravans. The Thetfords are last listed in 2002, in Climax, NC. They are listed as having participated on Airstream Company Caravan 241 - Alaska Adventure 1998 as well as the O43 2000 European overseas caravan that would have used rental RVs. #10951 has been unassigned since 2003.

Given that you are located in OK, I will speculate that there is a good chance that the Townsends may have also owned your Tradewind. However, if you did not buy it from NC, I will speculate that the Thetfords most likely did not own it and chances that they took a 1964 Airstream on an Alaskan caravan in 1998 would probably be small. Paperwork you may have gotten with the trailer may conform if either the Townsends or Thetfords owned it.

That's the best I can do. Enjoy your Tradewind!

[Tabasco]

Originally Posted by 66Overlander

Floyd and Marian Stark are last listed in the 1973 Directory, still in Brooklyn, OH, still no caravans. I have no 1974 Directory, but #10951 is unassinged in 1975 and 1976. I have no 1977 Directory, but #10951 is still unassigned in 1978.

In the 1979 and 1980 Directories, #10951 is assigned to E Mac and Clair Mae Townsend of Fredrick, OK, no caravans. It is then unassigned in 1981 & 1982.

In 1983, #10951 is assigned to Harry and Martha Thetford of Greensboro, NC, no caravans. The Thetfords are last listed in 2002, in Climax, NC. They are listed as having participated on Airstream Company Caravan 241 - Alaska Adventure 1998 as well as the O43 2000 European overseas caravan that would have used rental RVs. #10951 has been unassigned since 2003.

Given that you are located in OK, I will speculate that there is a good chance that the Townsends may have also owned your Tradewind. However, if you did not buy it from NC, I will speculate that the Thetfords most likely did not own it and chances that they took a 1964 Airstream on an Alaskan caravan in 1998 would probably be small. Paperwork you may have gotten with the trailer may conform if either the Townsends or Thetfords owned it.

That's the best I can do. Enjoy your Tradewind!

Wow, this just got weird...I live in Oklahoma and I even lived in Frederick OK briefly, but I purchased the AS from Pennsylvania in 2010. The PA title said it had been titled in PA since I *think* 2007, and that it had been transferred from an OH title.

Maybe I don't understand how this works. The number 10951 is associated with my trailer and my trailer only? For some reason, I thought that the caravan number went with a member of the WBCCI, no matter what trailer they owned. (can you tell I'm not a WBCCI member yet? oops) If 10951 is unique to my Tradewind, then this is more interesting than I EVER IMAGINED!

I will scour thru the notebook of service records that I found when I get home and see if I can match up any of the other names you mentioned. THANK YOU so much for looking all that up, this is very cool!

[azflycaster]

The WBCCI number is unique to the member not the trailer. After a member leaves the club, the number can be issued (2 years later) to another member. What Joe does with his research is to match the age of the trailer to the member at that time. It is not a science as members often change trailers and place the same numbers on the new one.

You can request that number if you decide to join the club.

[66Overlander]

Originally Posted by Tabasco

Wow, this just got weird...I live in Oklahoma and I even lived in Frederick OK briefly, but I purchased the AS from Pennsylvania in 2010. The PA title said it had been titled in PA since I *think* 2007, and that it had been transferred from an OH title.

Maybe I don't understand how this works. The number 10951 is associated with my trailer and my trailer only? For some reason, I thought that the caravan number went with a member of the WBCCI, no matter what trailer they owned. (can you tell I'm not a WBCCI member yet? oops) If 10951 is unique to my Tradewind, then this is more interesting than I EVER IMAGINED!

I will scour thru the notebook of service records that I found when I get home and see if I can match up any of the other names you mentioned. THANK YOU so much for looking all that up, this is very cool!

Originally Posted by azflycaster

The WBCCI number is unique to the member not the trailer. After a member leaves the club, the number can be issued (2 years later) to another member. What Joe does with his research is to match the age of the trailer to the member at that time. It is not a science as members often change trailers and place the same numbers on the new one.

You can request that number if you decide to join the club.

The numbers are assigned to members and usually stay with the memebers even if they trade Airstreams. Members can request to change to another available number at any time, however.

Richard is correct that numbers are typically reserved for two years after a non-renewal in case the member rejoins, but they can be reassigned immediately if the departing member consents (e.g. they sold their Airstream and will not be getting another one).

As new members join the club, they are assigned a number. Up until about 1980, there were new numbers assigned eventually exceeding 32000. Since then almost everyone that joins gets a reassigned number and there have been some reassigned numbers since the late 1950's. It is common for someone who buys a used airstream that currently has numbers on it to be assigned those numbers when they join the club, if they request them and they are not otherwise assigned or reserved.

So regarding your Airstream, I sort of assumed this might have been what happened when the numbers were assigned to the couple in Fredrick, OK. Now that you tell me that you purchased the trailer in PA, I tend to think they the Townsends and Thetfords were "randomly reassigned" #10951, rather than requesting that number because they owned your Tradewind. But in the end, that is just a guess, because the club does not keep records of the Airstreams that members owned.

[azflycaster]

Joe,
Thanks for all the work you do tracing the numbers and owners back through the years.

[66Overlander]

Originally Posted by dmcinfo

What can you tell me about my 1968 Globetrotter, its WBCCI 21010.

Thanks for any information.

Hi dmcinfo,
#21010 was first assigned in 1968, so that is appropriate for your 1968 Globetrotter. The first members to have that number were Thomas and Joanne Straeter of Chatham, NJ. The Straeters are last listed in the 1975 Directory in Alamo, CA, no caravans. Quite possibly they took the Globetrotter to CA when they moved - they are first listed in CA in the 1972 Directory.

#21010 is then unsassigned in the 1976 Directory and I have no 1977 Directory, but it is assigned to William and Susan Wencker of Littleton, CO in 1978, no caravans. #22010 has been unassigned from 1979 to now.

It thus seems almost a certainty that the Straeters owned your 1968 Globetrotter, but I would guess that the Wenckers probably did not own it because of the distances between CA and CO and because you now have it in CA.

In any case, enjoy your Airstream!

[shady62]

Hi Joe,

I was hoping you could help me with some information on my 1962 Ambassador. It currently shows #4544, but you can still make out either #5939 or #5339 underneath. Any chance on a bit of history?

Thanks very much,

Bill

[Tabasco]

Joe, Thank you for the explanation on how the numbers work and are re-assigned. At the very least, I now know that my number has to be 10951, and that I can ask for that number when I join the WBCCI. The research is much appreciated too!

Sarah

[66Overlander]

Originally Posted by shady62

Hi Joe,

I was hoping you could help me with some information on my 1962 Ambassador. It currently shows #4544, but you can still make out either #5939 or #5339 underneath. Any chance on a bit of history?

Thanks very much,

Bill

Hi Bill,
Both 5339 and 5939 would have been originally assigned in 1961 (highest # was 6008 by the end of 1961). If your '62 Ambassador has an early serial number it is possible it was built in late 1961 and the owners immediately joined the Wally Byam Caravan Club and one of those could be the original number.

My set of 1960's Membership Directories is very incomplete. The first I have after your trailer was made is 1966, which reflects membership as of 12/31/1965. Given that that is 4 years after 5339 and 5939 were assigned, I can't be sure that the members assigned those numbers didn't change during that interval, but here is what I found in the 1966 Directory:

• 5339: Brigadier General Preston & Wilma Wood of Poteau, OK, no caravans.
• 5939: Paul and Katherine Yull of Lansing, MI, caravan 37 - Mexico Winter 1964.

If you can confirm one of these numbers I'll look more up. Good Luck!

[dmcinfo]

Thank you Joe,

The description you provided seems accurate. I live in Sacramento, CA and the previous owner was from the SF Bay Area. He bought the AS from a couple who were residing in Napa at the time so maybe that was the Straeters.

We are enjoying the AS and have been redoing the interior. New cushions, drapes, flooring and countertop. The trailer was in surprisingly good condition when we purchased just needed a little updating. Next step is to get it polished.

Thanks again for the history.

[shady62]

Originally Posted by 66Overlander

Hi Bill,
Both 5339 and 5939 would have been originally assigned in 1961 (highest # was 6008 by the end of 1961). If your '62 Ambassador has an early serial number it is possible it was built in late 1961 and the owners immediately joined the Wally Byam Caravan Club and one of those could be the original number.

My set of 1960's Membership Directories is very incomplete. The first I have after your trailer was made is 1966, which reflects membership as of 12/31/1965. Given that that is 4 years after 5339 and 5939 were assigned, I can't be sure that the members assigned those numbers didn't change during that interval, but here is what I found in the 1966 Directory:

• 5339: Brigadier General Preston & Wilma Wood of Poteau, OK, no caravans.
• 5939: Paul and Katherine Yull of Lansing, MI, caravan 37 - Mexico Winter 1964.

If you can confirm one of these numbers I'll look more up. Good Luck!

Thanks very much! It appears that #5939 is the one as the dealer label says Bud's Airstream Trailer Sales Ionia-Grand Rapids. Nice to think that perhaps our trailer participated in the '64 Mexico caravan. Do you have any information on that rally?

Serial number is I282T392.

Do you have any info on the newer #4554 number? That may help me trace more of this Ambassador's history.

Again, thanks very much.

Bill

[shady62]

Originally Posted by shady62

Thanks very much! It appears that #5939 is the one as the dealer label says Bud's Airstream Trailer Sales Ionia-Grand Rapids. Nice to think that perhaps our trailer participated in the '64 Mexico caravan. Do you have any information on that rally?

Serial number is I282T392.

Do you have any info on the newer #4554 number? That may help me trace more of this Ambassador's history.

Again, thanks very much.

Bill

Sorry, newer number is #4544.

[66Overlander]

Originally Posted by shady62

Thanks very much! It appears that #5939 is the one as the dealer label says Bud's Airstream Trailer Sales Ionia-Grand Rapids. Nice to think that perhaps our trailer participated in the '64 Mexico caravan. Do you have any information on that rally?

Serial number is I282T392.

Do you have any info on the newer #4544 number? That may help me trace more of this Ambassador's history.

Again, thanks very much.

Bill

Bill,
I agree that the Michigan trailer dealer label makes it likely that the Yulls owned your Ambassador and likely took it on the Mexican caravan. The serial number is not as much help as I hoped. It confirms the Ambassador was built in the Ohio factory, but we do not know the starting and ending serial numbers for that factory in the early 1960's, so that is a dead end.

Given this discovery, I checked #5939 going forward and found that the Yulls were last listed in the 1982 Directory, still in Lansing, MI and still with just Caravan 37 listed. They may or may not have owned the Ambassador that full length of time. It is certainly possible that they upgraded to a newer Airstream at some point, but we have no records to tell either way.

In the 1983 to 1995 Directories, #5939 is assigned to Gerald and Maryann Gage of Rickreall, OR, no caravans. It seems unlikely that the Rickreals owned your Ambassador. #5939 is then unassigned in 1996 and 1997 before being assigned to a couple from Texas in 1998. I didn't check #5939 any further.

Now to follow up on the second number, #4544, which was also first assigned in 1961, but it would have been early 1961, before the 1962 models were out. Not knowing if/when the Yulls may have sold the Ambassador to upgrade to a newer Airstream I'll check right from 1966 forward. In the 1966 Directory, #4544 is assigned to two owners. First is Edward Muste of East Grand Rapids, MI. The second is James Price of Flat Rock, MI. No caravans are listed for either. Dual ownership of Airstreams is allowed in the club and the dual owners get the same membership number. What is a bit interesting is that Flat Rock and East Grand Rapids are perhaps 3 hours apart, not too convenient for sharing an Airstream.

Mr. Muste and Price are both last listed together for #4544 in 1978, when Mr. Muste was still in E. Grand Rapids, MI, but Mr. Price was listed in Niles, OH, now much more than 3 hours apart. No caravans were listed for either of them. In the 1979 Directory, only Mr. Muste was listed for #4544, still in E. Grand Rapids, no caravans (perhaps Mr. Price was too late renewing his dues to be listed in the Directory). Then from 1980 to 1999, just Mr. Price was listed for #4544 in Niles, OH until the end, no caravans.

#4544 is then unassigned in 2000 to 2002 before being assigned to a couple from Sidell, IL in the 2003 Directory. It is then unassigned in 2004 and then assigned to another couple from Concord Township, OH in 2005. It is then unassigned in 2006 and 2007 before being reassigned to a couple from Rolla, MO in 2008 to 2011. I have deliberately left names off for the recent owners to protect their privacy.

So what does this all mean? Assuming that the Yulls did originally own your Ambassador, I can only guess that at some time between 1961 and 1982 they may have sold the Ambassador to Mr. Muste and Mr. Price. This makes sense because all were lower Michigan residents for many years and they were all in the same Michigan Unit of WBCCI.

I then might guess that Mr. Price brought the Ambassador to Niles, OH, which is close to the PA border. It's path from their to your location in Yardley, PA is harder to speculate on. The only other club member that I might reasonably speculate to have possibly owned your Ambassador is the couple from Concord Township, OH, but that is in somewhat the wrong direction near Cleveland, OH. Of course this is all just geographic speculation and my guesses could be totally wrong. We won't really know the answer unless you find evidence that the Ambassador was in or near any of the cities I mention. If you have other suspected owner names, send me a PM and I'll see if that matches any of the more recent names I did not list.

That's the best I can do. This one was (and is) a real mystery. Enjoy your Ambassador!

[shady62]

Originally Posted by 66Overlander

Bill,
I agree that the Michigan trailer dealer label makes it likely that the Yulls owned your Ambassador and likely took it on the Mexican caravan. The serial number is not as much help as I hoped. It confirms the Ambassador was built in the Ohio factory, but we do not know the starting and ending serial numbers for that factory in the early 1960's, so that is a dead end.

Given this discovery, I checked #5939 going forward and found that the Yulls were last listed in the 1982 Directory, still in Lansing, MI and still with just Caravan 37 listed. They may or may not have owned the Ambassador that full length of time. It is certainly possible that they upgraded to a newer Airstream at some point, but we have no records to tell either way.

In the 1983 to 1995 Directories, #5939 is assigned to Gerald and Maryann Gage of Rickreall, OR, no caravans. It seems unlikely that the Rickreals owned your Ambassador. #5939 is then unassigned in 1996 and 1997 before being assigned to a couple from Texas in 1998. I didn't check #5939 any further.

Now to follow up on the second number, #4544, which was also first assigned in 1961, but it would have been early 1961, before the 1962 models were out. Not knowing if/when the Yulls may have sold the Ambassador to upgrade to a newer Airstream I'll check right from 1966 forward. In the 1966 Directory, #4544 is assigned to two owners. First is Edward Muste of East Grand Rapids, MI. The second is James Price of Flat Rock, MI. No caravans are listed for either. Dual ownership of Airstreams is allowed in the club and the dual owners get the same membership number. What is a bit interesting is that Flat Rock and East Grand Rapids are perhaps 3 hours apart, not too convenient for sharing an Airstream.

Mr. Muste and Price are both last listed together for #4544 in 1978, when Mr. Muste was still in E. Grand Rapids, MI, but Mr. Price was listed in Niles, OH, now much more than 3 hours apart. No caravans were listed for either of them. In the 1979 Directory, only Mr. Muste was listed for #4544, still in E. Grand Rapids, no caravans (perhaps Mr. Price was too late renewing his dues to be listed in the Directory). Then from 1980 to 1999, just Mr. Price was listed for #4544 in Niles, OH until the end, no caravans.

#4544 is then unassigned in 2000 to 2002 before being assigned to a couple from Sidell, IL in the 2003 Directory. It is then unassigned in 2004 and then assigned to another couple from Concord Township, OH in 2005. It is then unassigned in 2006 and 2007 before being reassigned to a couple from Rolla, MO in 2008 to 2011. I have deliberately left names off for the recent owners to protect their privacy.

So what does this all mean? Assuming that the Yulls did originally own your Ambassador, I can only guess that at some time between 1961 and 1982 they may have sold the Ambassador to Mr. Muste and Mr. Price. This makes sense because all were lower Michigan residents for many years and they were all in the same Michigan Unit of WBCCI.

I then might guess that Mr. Price brought the Ambassador to Niles, OH, which is close to the PA border. It's path from their to your location in Yardley, PA is harder to speculate on. The only other club member that I might reasonably speculate to have possibly owned your Ambassador is the couple from Concord Township, OH, but that is in somewhat the wrong direction near Cleveland, OH. Of course this is all just geographic speculation and my guesses could be totally wrong. We won't really know the answer unless you find evidence that the Ambassador was in or near any of the cities I mention. If you have other suspected owner names, send me a PM and I'll see if that matches any of the more recent names I did not list.

That's the best I can do. This one was (and is) a real mystery. Enjoy your Ambassador!

Thanks again! This is great information. Actually, the trailer is enjoying retirement in Ft. Myers, Florida so the plot thickens . . .

How do I send you a pm?

Bill

[66Overlander]

Originally Posted by shady62

Thanks again! This is great information. Actually, the trailer is enjoying retirement in Ft. Myers, Florida so the plot thickens . . .

How do I send you a pm?

Bill

PM = Private Message

Just "left click" on my screen name to the left and select "send a private message to 66Overlander" from the drop down list that appears.

[alclad]

hi

while attending the "bash II" last week i was told that maybe you could identify some history on our 61 bambi.

from old papers it was at one time: 5123, 8157, and 1913. the 1913 & the 8157 can still be seen. part of the 5123 is there also.

i was also told that a shadow from a caravan was there. i had no idea what smaller rectangular image was.

it would be good to know a little about our favorite (and only) airstream

thank you

don&karen

[hippiechick]

I can't imagine how time consuming all this research is but this is great reading!! And of course I would love to know about our '66 Tradewind. The number is 7538. We purchased it in Ohio last year. Thanks in advance.

[Don Lorenzo]

Hi all, I'm restoring a 1957 22" Custom # 27197. I live in Germany, and I would be glad to get in contact to its original owner.
Thanks in advance
Best Regards,
Lorenz H. Weiss

[marzboy]

Hi looking for info on my 1965 Soverign. Looks like there are two sets of #'s?