Dan's '66 Tradewind Improvements

[dbj216]

Your Trade Wind looks like a dry southwest trailer, not a lush southeast one. You are fortunate indeed. Mine was better than some, maybe a C+.

You have your work cut out for you young man. Doing the insulation and then a new belly pan is hard on my shoulders. I've done three of them now and I'm glad I don't have the fourth on the docket for now.

Keep us posted on how this latest improvement comes along.

David

[TouringDan]

Photo 1 shows the umbilical cord 12v wiring running along the curb side of the trailer. I have removed the damaged insulation. Photo 2 shows the same photo with new flex conduit protecting the wiring. I am now ready to install the section of new flooring rotted out by the Airstream design of the rear bumper trunk.

Photo 3 shows more new flexible conduit on the umbilical cord wiring secured to the right frame rail that has been freshly painted. Photo 4 shows the entire back half of the frame that has been cleaned, primed and painted with Rust Bullet paint. I am sure that the frame is now much better protected than when it left the factory 52 years ago. I am finally ready to insulate and install the belly pan.

David- Did you have any trouble drilling into the frame, considering that the cross members are only about 0.5" wide, to install the pop rivits?

Dan

[dbj216]

Hi Touring Dan: Yes, yes, I have trouble doing almost anything, including walking and chewing gum at the same time. Drilling new rivet holes in skinny cross members is a hit and miss proposition if you know what I mean.

What I found worked pretty good for me was using my old "cow magnet". It is not a magnetic device that attracts to cows. It is a veterinarian prescribed magnet that you stuff down a cow's mouth. It tends to attract any ferrous metal the cow might have eaten.

The cow magnet is cylindrical. It is strong enough to stick to a cross member below the aluminum sheet. It tends to center itself on the cross member flange. And then placing my 5/32" drill along the centerline of the magnet, I was able to hit the crossmember more than I missed it. Misses became drain holes.

I marked the centerline of the trailer on each crossmember. I also marked the centerline on the belly pan aluminum bottom facing side so I could better align the sheets. I worked with the 48" sheet going east-west. I cut the sheets about 62" long if memory serves. I also used a 10' 2x4 on my jack stands as a support for the floppy sheet of belly pan aluminum. This helped me hold the sheet up until I could start the drilling and riveting process. I riveted from the centerline of the trailer out toward the sides. I used 3/16 big flange rivets in the frame rails, and 5/32" rivets in the cross members. Spacing was about 9" on center. I started at the back of the trailer and worked forward with about a 2" overlap between each sheet. The overlap may help sheet road spray back toward the rear, not scoop it into the frame. Each sheet had details like the dump port, or the axle brackets, or the step, or propane lines, or the banana wrap compound curve. The sides of the belly pan aluminum reached about 4" into the outriggers, and then the side skins wrapped around that.

All this is bringing back nightmares. Belly pan nightmares are the worse.

There is a slight chance this will help you.

David

[TouringDan]

David- I was afraid that question would bring back horrible memories. I will see if I can find a cow magnet.

Thanks, Dan

[TouringDan]

Gray Tank Modification.

I plugged the toilet flange hole into the black water tank since we installed a Curve Porta Potty (actually just a very economical cassette toilet). The first photo shows the plugged toilet flange. This necessitated a hole in the floor for the toilet flange, photo 2. Since I was never going to use the tank for black water again, I wanted to remove the toilet flange so I could have a floor without a hole in it for the toilet flange. I have tried patching a polyethylene tank before with adhesive and it just did not work. I used a plastic tank access cover plate that I found at a kayak shop and I think it will work fine, photo 3. Now I can have a smooth floor over the top of the gray water tank and can also finish repairing the rotted floor at the rear of the trailer.

[TouringDan]

Leaking Shower P-Trap

When I took the Tradewind off the road to make some repairs and upgrades, one of the problems I thought that I had was a leaking gray water tank. This was definitely not the case. There was some water leaking out of a bad connection at the discharge valve, but most of the leaking water came from a leak in the shower p-trap. I discovered this when I removed the plastic bowl covering the white p-trap (photo 3). The bowl was full of water. I believe what was happening was every time we took a shower, most of the water drained into the gray water tank. However, at the end of the shower the p-trap was full of water, but the drain plug in the bottom of the p-trap was leaking (photo 2). All the water in the p-trap would leak into the full bowl of water and overflow wetting the insulation and the carbon steel support box for the gray water tank.

I tried to seal the threads with heavy duty teflon tape, but that did not hold. I decided to just glue the drain plug to the p-trap. I tested it by filling the trap with water. It held for the most part except for a few drips. I felt of the ABS surface and felt a small crack. I went ahead and covered the ptrap with silicone to make sure it did not leak at all. I then installed the plastic bowl and the insulation (photo 4).

Dan

[dbj216]

What a great job on the new insulation shown in the photo. A big improvement in my view. My insulation board was not cut so precisely. And I was given the insulation board by a farmer friend who removed it from an outbuilding. What the heck, the price was right.

The shower drain was leaking a bit in my trailer. But the main villain for my floor rot was a leaking toilet, and of course the rear body seal. In fact I did not replace that section of floor since it was solid. Old but solid like me. Since I put in a new shower pan, I replaced the old p-trap. So far I don't have any gray water dripping out of my belly pan drain holes. But I don't have many towing miles or nights out in the Trade Wind yet. It's not proven solid.

David

[TouringDan]

Belly Pan Insulation

The floor joists are 5" tall, so I figured that I would use either 3.5" of fiberglass or Roxul insulation on top with another 1" of solid foam insulation below it. I decided on the Roxul over fiberglass, but I am really not sure which is better. The Roxul claims an R15 for 3.5", says it is fire resistant,repels water, rot resistant, mold and bacterial growth resistant, noise resistant and has a better dimensional stability than fiberglass. I believe it has better dimensional stability than fiberglass, but I really don't know if the moisture and other resistance factors are any better (or worse) than fiberglass. The rigid foam I am using is Dow Corning Foamular. The 1" sheet has an R factor of 5.0, so the total R factor for my belly pan insulation will be 20.

The first photo shows only the Roxul insulation. The second photo shows the addition of the Foamular 1" sheeting along with the 1" aluminum angle right next to the floor joist. I am using this to hold the insulation up and also to install the rivets which will hold up the belly pan. Photo 3 shows the aluminum angle riveted to the main frame with 1/8" rivets. Photo 4 shows the aluminum angle riveted to the floor joist at 3 different locations using 3/16" rivets.

I am hoping that the 1" aluminum angle will make it much easier to blind rivet the belly pan material to the supporting framework.

Dan

[Slats]

Dan -

Here is my next (but surely not the last) dumb question: why not just do the whole five inches in foam, aside from the fact that it would apparently yield only R25 instead of R30? I'd be willing to give up R5 in exchange for a little less worry about moisture, critters, etc., but am always open to being educated. I will admit to paying in the past some pretty high tuition in the School of Hard Knocks.

[Slats]

Correction: my math was off in giving the other stuff an R25 instead of R15, but the same basic question remains, especially in light of an increased R value of 5 instead of a decrease of 5.

[TouringDan]

Slats

I will do my best to answer your question. It is a very good question btw.

First I don't think it matters a lot whether you use rock wool, fiberglass or hard sheet insulation. The floor R factor will vary from R 15-R 25. Not terribly significant when the wall/ceiling R factor is probably only R 5 or 6, then you have all those large single pane windows.

When I say it does not matter a lot, I am talking about my situation. All my insulation was dry, except next to the gray water tank, and I found no mice.

The cavity is 5" deep. It made sense to me to use 3.5" fiberglass or Roxul on top with 1" hard insulation below. I had no problem using fiberglass but believe the Roxul has better dimensional stability and better noise resistance. I did not use hard insulation on top because of the difficulty of going around things like floor bolts, short sections of plywood and other metal pieces sticking out- it was just a lot easier to install the Roxul on top. I really don't think it matters. Just personal preference. Hope this makes sense.

Dan

[Slats]

Thanks. Makes perfect sense.

[TouringDan]

Rotted Floor Replacement

The last 10" of my Tradewind floor was rotted due to the infamous defective rear trunk design by Airstream. I have just finished replacement of the rotted floor. It was not that difficult and I may have been a bit lucky, but here are some comments on what it takes to complete this repair. Of course you must have access to the rotted section of floor. This means the gray/black water tank must be removed and the rear banana wraps on both sides must be removed. When you cut out the rotted floor the line must be parallel to the rear slot that the wood fits into. I made this cut with an oscillating saw. The floor needs to be replaced in 3 sections. Both of the new banana wrap sections must be inserted in the middle of the rear slot and the piece slid over the frame to the outside. A hammer and a piece of wood were used to apply enough force to move the piece into the correct position. This is where I got a bit lucky; I made my cuts correctly, so I did not have to remove the piece, modify the cut and re install the piece. Here are 11 photos, before and after, of the repaired floor. I still have a few "floor connectors" to install on top. These will insure that the new floor is structurally tied to the old floor.

I applied three coats of exterior polyurethane to protect the floor from moisture. Six 1/4 x 1 1/2" stainless steel bolts will be used to secure the floor to the rear structural cross member.

Dan

[TouringDan]

Floor Repair

Here are two more photos (before and after) from the bottom.

Dan

[dbj216]

Very good TouringDan: I used three pieces of new plywood on my bath floor replacement also. I elected to go all the way to the first cross member to gain support for the new floor piece. And I added an angle iron to further support this rather large section of plywood. The bath is an area that gets used a lot, and I didn't want a flimsy floor to stand on.

I also made left and right corner pieces that went from the frame rails to the c-channel. I had significant difficulty getting them into place, but finally made it.

Here is a photo of "as found" and "as repaired".

David

[TouringDan]

More Graywater Tank Work

The Tradewind provides some heat for the gray water tank by having the cold air return open to the graywater tank cavity (photo 1). I decided that I did not feel the need to have the graywater tank heated so I closed off the end of the cold air return duct (photos 2 & 3).

My graywater tank is in great condition, considering that it is 52 years old except for the plastic exit flange that attaches to the dump valve. I attached some aluminum angle using rivets to the back of the flange to strengthen the flange for attachment to the dump valve and connecting elbow (photos 4 & 5).

Photo 6 shows the graywater tank installed. I always thought that the graywater tank capacity was 30 gallons. I don't know where I got this information as I looked at my owner's manual today and this information was not listed. Anyhow, I measured the cavity where the gray tank is located and the dimensions are 26" x 54" x 5". The volume for these dimensions is 4.0 cubic feet or 30 gallons. Looking at the gray tank, i would estimate that the volume is approximately 15-20 gallons.

There are 36 screws holding the tank to the floor. I believe this will support the tank just fine. I will never understand why Airstream did not do it this way. I think their method of supporting it with a metal box that would self destruct over time was a bad design decision. Of course time will tell.

Dan

[dbj216]

I wonder what the material is of the "gray" water tank (that used to be a black water tank). Your tank appears in very good condition indeed. Yes, the galvanized steel tank support system was a bad idea back then, but wait, Airstream still does it. My 86 Limited has three tanks all supported by a steel pan. At least it hasn't rusted out.

I removed the cold air return oval duct in my Trade Wind. I installed a conventional furnace and decided to use under floor ducting to the register in the bathroom as well as the living room. The third duct goes to the tank pan. This heating plan may be a bad idea too, but so far it seems to be working well enough. It is a SP30 furnace, so the inefficiency of the ductwork is overwhelmed.

David

[TouringDan]

Floor Repairs Completed

David- The waste tank is polyethylene (I believe). I kinda like the single outlet in the middle. Reminds me of a center exhaust on some sports cars, the Porsche Boxter comes to mind. If something happens to my gray tank, I will install a new custom made tank that fills the entire cavity and has a capacity of 30 gallons.

My floor repairs are complete. Photo 1 shows the area where the water heater will be reinstalled. Photo 2 shows the converter reinstalled. The Pex line with the plug in it is for a future city water connection if I decide to install one. Currently we just fill the tank and use the water pump. It works fine for us.

Photo 3 shows the floor before the raised platform is installed that holds the two 6 volt golf cart batteries, the 1000 watt inverter and the Curve Toilet. The two pex outlets are for draining the lines and for providing water to an exterior shower that I plan to install.

Dan

[dbj216]

The late model Corvettes have center exhaust outlets too. Maybe Airstream was ahead of the times.

I was thinking the original waste water tank in our Trade Winds might be ABS plastic. It almost looks like it was vacuum molded, and then a top with flange "welded" to the molded bottom. But I'm only speculating. Some guys do "weld up" their own ABS water tanks in the size and configuration they want.

The tanks I installed are polyethylene, roto molded. Most RV tanks are made that way now. It's a good material and process for low volume, large size tank.

I bet it feels good that you are putting your Trade Wind back together and I'm sure you are making small improvements along the way.

David

[TouringDan]

David

I believe both the waste water tank and the original fresh water tank were polyethylene. We had a leak in the original fresh water tank. I tried to fix it but failed. I installed a new 30 gallon tank and now carry the empty old tank in the bed of my truck for when I want to refill the freshwater tank without moving the Airstream.

I am enjoying the reassembly and trying to do it as well or better than original while always striving to make improvements. I am on a vacation break now as we are on a 10 day trip to Northern California thanks to our kids. This is not our style of travel but of course are checking out all the campgrounds for a planned return trip with the Tradewind and our little dog.

Dan