Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 12-31-2015, 07:33 PM   #29
Rivet Master
 
dbj216's Avatar

 
1986 34' Limited
1975 27' Overlander
Conifer , Colorado
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,026
Images: 1
Talk to Inca about using their grommets on a horizontal wall with vibration. All of my grommets are used on top of the tank. But we used a similar design in fuel and hydraulic tanks on the side walls as well as the bottom. It would not be hard to specify a spin weld fitting on the side walls of your tanks since the exact location can be easily specified. It might be a challenge to get the lead tank to drain completely.

Here is the link (I hope) to DW incorporated, the manufacturer of RV flex ducting. I opted for non insulated ducting as I wanted it to fit in the oval holes in the cross members. I subsequently insulated around the ducts with rigid foam insulation cut to fit. The heat I loose will keep the subfloor warm somewhat.

Flexible Ducting / Uninsulated Flex - DW Inc.

They also make many of the duct "fittings" that connect the system all together. I elected to run my heated air under the subfloor and out through floor vents with the cold air return under the galley cabinets.

You've given thought to your frame rail decision. My Trade Wind at about 4500 GVWR sits on a 5" by 1 1/2 by 3/16 thick C channel frame rails. Flimsy but works. The cross members are welded into the channel. Airstream built lightweight frames supported by the subfloor and then the shell itself. Semi-monocoque construction. 5" fully boxed adds considerable strength. If I recall correctly, my 86 Limited is built with 6" channels. Photos below.

David
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	1312 Frame POR 15 Axle Plate.jpg
Views:	138
Size:	209.2 KB
ID:	254900   Click image for larger version

Name:	1107 Frame Rail Curb Side.jpg
Views:	145
Size:	316.0 KB
ID:	254901  

__________________

dbj216 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2016, 12:06 PM   #30
3 Rivet Member
 
Atomic_13's Avatar
 
1968 24' Tradewind
1968 26' Overlander
Kansas City , Kansas
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 224
We have liftoff!

@David - thanks for the links to the flexible vents.

I made some progress over the weekend.

Lifted the shell


Do you think I need a new frame? (note the bend as a result of the frame rails breaking when we stood on them after the shell was off)


Cleared the trailer frame


Got the new frame rails and a few cross members (2x2s) welded square and level.



I've created a punch list for future work. For anyone who has done this before, please let me know if you have suggested edits (different order, new ideas, etc)
  • WITH THE FRAME ON ITS SIDE
  • Install remaining 2x2 cross beams, continue to drop every other cross beam by 5/8" for subfloor spines/junctions

    FLIP FRAME RIGHT SIDE UP
  • Create A frame with 50 degree coupler that protrudes 1 foot longer than stock, attach to main frame
  • Weld bumper to frame
  • Create rotisserie clamps for A frame and rear bumper

    FLIP FRAME UPSIDE DOWN (rest on floor jacks)
  • Create axle mounting plate (using 4" angle iron) and attach to frame
  • Install axles, wheels and tires (verify axles are perpendicular to frame by measuring from the center point of the coupler to each axle hub, leave a small space between axles and frame to allow belly pan metal to slide through)
  • Install trailer jack

    FLIP FRAME RIGHT SIDE UP (via gantries)
  • Plasma cut 5" c channel outriggers (using jig), attach to frame (all should be level with top of frame rails with exception of doorway/step outriggers which need dropped by 1/16" to accommodate 14 gauge steel plate)
  • Attach 14 gauge steel plate below entry way (to protect subfloor from elements and reinforce entry way floor)
  • Attach hold down plate to A frame
  • Attach receiver hitch to rear bumper (bike rack) and awning side (for a slide in outdoor table)
  • Paint frame with Eastwood frame primer and topcoat paint
  • Epoxy plywood edges
  • Install 6" plywood splines via (self tapping screws) on 2x2 cross members at plywood joints
  • Repair and install fender wells
  • Install plywood with elevator bolts around perimeter (skip areas involving front and rear curved c channel), glue and screw plywood to splines, use countersunk self tapping screws to affix plywood to 2x2s at mid point of boards
  • Transfer underlayment pattern board to subfloor (cut front and rear curves, and holes for toilet flange and shower drain P trap)
  • Pre fit grey and black tanks, cut holes for drains and vents
  • Epoxy newly cut plywood edges
  • Install front and rear curved c channel using elevator bolts

    FLIP FRAME UPSIDE DOWN (rest on floor jacks)
  • Install plastic P trap bowl under subfloor
  • Install spare tire holder under A frame
  • Install grey and black tanks (support tanks using galvanized struts with rubber spacers to prevent tank chafing) - (Do I need to make galvanized tank boxes???)
  • Install plumbing
  • Weld 2" straps across outriggers and at trailer mid point below 2x2s for belly pan attachment (protect tanks from sparks)
  • Install conduit and run 7 wire cable, break lines, and separate brake actuator wires, etc
  • Run tank sensor wires
  • Install reflectix and fiberglass insulation
  • Install flexible heating duct from heater location to front and rear of trailer (install flapper valves near grey and black tanks to heat tank areas)
  • Install belly pan
  • Install 4 BAL stabilizer jacks

    FLIP FRAME RIGHT SIDE UP
  • Weld platform for generator and LP tanks
  • Fill and level plywood floor gaps and defects
  • Install marmoleum sheet (should this be done prior to attaching c channel???)
__________________

__________________
Brian's AS renovation:
https://www.airforums.com/forums/f11...on-134984.html
Tow vehicle: 2019 F250 Lariat 6.7L CC SRW
Atomic_13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2016, 01:10 PM   #31
Rivet Master
 
Aerowood's Avatar

 
1971 21' Globetrotter
Arvada , Colorado
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 2,942
You may what to think about full size gussets at the intersection of the cross members and frame rails. You wouldn't want the outriggers (and shell weight) to roll the bottom of the frame rails. It looks pretty beefy and I doubt it would happen, but you know what they say, "an ounce of prevention".
Aerowood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2016, 06:02 PM   #32
3 Rivet Member
 
Atomic_13's Avatar
 
1968 24' Tradewind
1968 26' Overlander
Kansas City , Kansas
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerowood View Post
"...think about full size gussets at the intersection of the cross members and frame rails."
Excellent suggestion that I'll strongly consider. It wouldn't add much weight to weld a 3" to 4" triangle below each 2x2 at the corners.

We considered the pros/cons of 2x2 cross beams located at the top of the frame rails. We were hoping that with the addition of the axles at the mid point of the frame box would stabilize the bottom of the frame rail from being pushed inward.
__________________
Brian's AS renovation:
https://www.airforums.com/forums/f11...on-134984.html
Tow vehicle: 2019 F250 Lariat 6.7L CC SRW
Atomic_13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2016, 07:49 PM   #33
Rivet Master
 
dbj216's Avatar

 
1986 34' Limited
1975 27' Overlander
Conifer , Colorado
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,026
Images: 1
Congratulations on lifting the shell. Not very many Airstreamers have done this, and I am one who has not. But it is the best way to repair, or replace the frame.

Your old frame didn't have much strength left. But it also demonstrates the strength of the semi monocoque construction. The frame is built lightweight and rather flimsy, but add the subfloor and add the shell, at all becomes strong. Some Airstreams suffer rear end separation due to rusted out rear cross members. When the body becomes disconnected from the frame at the rear, the frame will sag, and sometimes buckle just behind the axles.

Your new frame looks very stout.

I remember watching the "frame prep" station at the Airstream factory. They had a rotisserie and did work on the frame as they flipped it around. It left that station with tanks, plumbing, axles, belly pan, subfloor, electrical, ductwork, etc, etc.

David
dbj216 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2016, 05:13 PM   #34
3 Rivet Member
 
Atomic_13's Avatar
 
1968 24' Tradewind
1968 26' Overlander
Kansas City , Kansas
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 224
Plan update (input from Colin Hyde)

I had a great phone conversation with Colin Hyde who very kindly reviewed my punch list and future plans and provided some expert opinion. I can’t tell you how impressed I was with his knowledge and ability to communicate complicated ideas in straight forward language. Since there are others on the forum who are building frames, I thought sharing this level of detail may be useful. Here are my take away points from our phone conversation (Colin - please weigh in if I didn’t summarize your suggestions correctly):

It’s essential that cross members and outriggers be welded completely and securely to both the top, sides, and bottom of the frame rails (not just with spot weld tacks). Lots of forces are exerted at this junction (especially common for the top welds of the outriggers to break).

Installing 5” outriggers on a 6” frame (my original plan) may very well lead to compression of the side walls of the main frame rales as a result of torsional forces. Evidently, this was a problem in some Airstreams that lead to a manufacturer recall. The downward forces exerted on the perimeter of the plywood edges (from the C channel and what's attached to it) are transferred into the most outward point of the outriggers. These forces are then transferred through the outriggers into the main frame rail (especially at the lowest point where the outriggers meet the frame rail). If this point occurs on a weak part of the frame rail (any portion not supported by the top or bottom of the frame rail’s horizontal metal) side wall compression may occur (which would obviously weaken the frame).

This principle also is justification for Aerowood’s comment suggesting I consider installing gussets inside the frame rails attached to the 2x2 cross members to prevent the bottom edge of the frame rail from rotating inward. Ideally I would have had 11 gauge steel bent into a 6” tall C channel for my outriggers and frame rails. We ordered extra 2x6 rectangular tubing so I might use that for my outriggers (probably overkill). Since I’ve already committed to using 2x2 tubing as cross members, Colin suggested simply adding 2 inch angle iron at the bottom of the frame (under each 2x2 tube) would be just fine. These would also be useful for attaching the belly pan and supporting grey tanks.

I’ll need to figure out how to route my grey tank plumbing since the 2x2 angle will obstruct the bottom path that was originally unobstructed in my first plan. I wonder if Aerowood’s suggested gussets in the grey tank area would work (leaving room for plumbing)?

Enclose all 2x6 end caps with metal plate/welds to avoid vermin, moisture, insects, etc from entering.

Install two outriggers side-by-side in front and behind of each fender well to help support the forces that span above the wheels (no outriggers are possible in this area due to the tires).

Extending the A frame by a foot should be fine and make room for generators, tanks, etc.

If my A frame is inset a bit in between my main frame rails, such that the front end of the frame rails extend past the bend in the A frame (bottom part of the A) I should add a cross piece that extends from the end of the frame rail to the beam angling towards the coupler (essentially creating a small triangle). This helps significantly with stability and also further supports the floor.

Regarding axle mounting plates, Airstream has attached a 3/16” plate to the outside of the frame (via fish plating). Colin’s shop uses 1/4 metal. The holes on old trailers may not match the pattern used in modern axles.

Install an aluminum liner below the plywood in the front of the trailer for the spare tire compartment.

Install the marmoleum flooring after the interior walls are attached and the furniture is ready to be installed (do not install it before attaching the shell to the frame)

Consider moving the black tank inside the trailer and not leave it in the belly pan (so it doesn’t freeze at night)

Lastly, I decided to use 16 gauge (rather than 14 gauge) galvanized steel for the area under my entry way step (will need to protect the aluminum from oxidation).
__________________
Brian's AS renovation:
https://www.airforums.com/forums/f11...on-134984.html
Tow vehicle: 2019 F250 Lariat 6.7L CC SRW
Atomic_13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2016, 09:37 PM   #35
3 Rivet Member
 
Atomic_13's Avatar
 
1968 24' Tradewind
1968 26' Overlander
Kansas City , Kansas
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 224
frame update

Knocked out the A-frame/coupler, the remaining cross members, and fabricated mounting clamps for the frame rotisserie over the past weekend. I'm pleased the gantries held under load. It was something else to flip the frame with one hand. This will save a ton of time.

Next up is the outriggers, axle mounts, bracing the cross members to the bottom of the main frame rails (gussets), and some minor bracing for a spare tire holder, holding tanks, and the belly pan.

We decided to use 2x6 11 gauge rectangular tube for my outriggers. This will add ~65# to the frame compared to having 6" tall C channel bent from hot rolled 11 gauge plate. Personally, the outriggers seem under engineered given how much weight they bear. The radius of the curve on my stock outriggers perfectly match that of a 6" hole saw. This curve on the stock outriggers starts tapering 2" down the outside edge from the top of the outrigger and ends on the bottom of the outrigger 11.5" from the frame rail.

I'll fabricate the outriggers by cutting the 2x6 tube to 14.5" in length (all my outriggers measured this length) and plasma cut the curve with a wooden template that saddles over the top of the rectangular tube (so I can cut both sides of the 2x6 with the same template/jig).

The curve on my new outriggers will need to start tapering 3" from the top of the frame (rather than 2"). On my 1968, the body skin wraps under the outriggers. My decision to use a 6" tall frame will require I move the steel belly pan attachment strap (that runs fore and after under the outriggers) outward by ~ 1". I'm hopeful that it will not be all that noticeable.

A remaining unknown are the banana wraps. Make new ones or reshape the olds ones to fit the extra 1" frame height? Not sure what to do here, yet...









__________________
Brian's AS renovation:
https://www.airforums.com/forums/f11...on-134984.html
Tow vehicle: 2019 F250 Lariat 6.7L CC SRW
Atomic_13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2016, 06:58 AM   #36
Rivet Master
 
Aerowood's Avatar

 
1971 21' Globetrotter
Arvada , Colorado
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 2,942
Nice, I wish I had your shop. The management here at work won't let me work on my GT in the hanger. I think they are a little narrow minded.
Aerowood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2016, 02:16 PM   #37
3 Rivet Member
 
Atomic_13's Avatar
 
1968 24' Tradewind
1968 26' Overlander
Kansas City , Kansas
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 224
@Kit - it's my dad's shop. Designed for keeping his semi truck on the road. I'd argue there isn't a better place to restore an airstream. Brian
__________________
Brian's AS renovation:
https://www.airforums.com/forums/f11...on-134984.html
Tow vehicle: 2019 F250 Lariat 6.7L CC SRW
Atomic_13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2016, 07:15 PM   #38
Rivet Master
 
dbj216's Avatar

 
1986 34' Limited
1975 27' Overlander
Conifer , Colorado
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,026
Images: 1
Nothing like a good shop to work in. I rented space in a building for the last 3 winters. It provided something to do for an old retired guy during the long, cold winters in Minnesota. Winters are for working on old Airstreams, and summers are for traveling in them.

Atomic, you're in the trailer fab business. The frame looks very stout indeed. I'll bet the gross vehicle weight rating of your "new" Airstream will be much higher than the original if the axles, brakes and tires keep up.

David
dbj216 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2016, 05:33 AM   #39
3 Rivet Member
 
Atomic_13's Avatar
 
1968 24' Tradewind
1968 26' Overlander
Kansas City , Kansas
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 224
Welding one frame only is my plan. It's hard work. I'm estimating the frame will come in at about 1200#s.

Hopefully with all the other planned additions (AGM batteries, solar, Tex) I'll stay under 5000# which is still a lot lighter than a new AS. Click image for larger version

Name:	ImageUploadedByAirstream Forums1453293212.705640.jpg
Views:	159
Size:	175.4 KB
ID:	255988
__________________
Brian's AS renovation:
https://www.airforums.com/forums/f11...on-134984.html
Tow vehicle: 2019 F250 Lariat 6.7L CC SRW
Atomic_13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2016, 06:10 PM   #40
3 Rivet Member
 
Atomic_13's Avatar
 
1968 24' Tradewind
1968 26' Overlander
Kansas City , Kansas
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 224
Forgot to add that I plan use my new trailer to haul the old to the frame to metal reclaim. They'll weigh the old frame metal and I'll ask nicely for them to weigh the new frame as well. Sheepishly, I'll post the weight difference here.
__________________
Brian's AS renovation:
https://www.airforums.com/forums/f11...on-134984.html
Tow vehicle: 2019 F250 Lariat 6.7L CC SRW
Atomic_13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2016, 03:43 PM   #41
3 Rivet Member
 
Atomic_13's Avatar
 
1968 24' Tradewind
1968 26' Overlander
Kansas City , Kansas
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 224
Axles are on!

Update from this past weekend’s work…

I fabricated and attached the axle/shock mounting brackets to the frame. It was a sigh of relief when the axles fit exactly as planned (had to factor that in before the first weld on the frame was made). Prior to welding the axle mount to the frame we double checked it was perpendicular to the center line of the trailer (ensuring equal measurements from the coupler to each axle spindles). I was pleased to see the frame remains true and level after adding all the varies pieces and parts (I’ve learned that welding can push and pull metal around).

Prior to reinstalling the wheels, i spent some time wire brushing and cleaning them (for paint prep). I was happy to see I had 6 bolt/5.5" bolt pattern wheels with the baby moon clips. Anyone source hubcaps for this type of wheel? Looks like those at VTS are not what I need.

We used the gantries to flip the trailer onto it’s tires and installed the new jack. It’s starting to look like a trailer.





Someone on the forum came up with the great idea to add a short (6”) receiver hitch on the curb side of the trailer. This is located between the tires and can be used to mount a small table for outdoor cooking (think outdoor food prep while boon docking at a trail head, etc). Of course we could simply bring along a small table but we like to camp high in the rockies where the wind really blows. This will provide a more secure place to fry some bacon.



__________________
Brian's AS renovation:
https://www.airforums.com/forums/f11...on-134984.html
Tow vehicle: 2019 F250 Lariat 6.7L CC SRW
Atomic_13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2016, 07:58 PM   #42
Rivet Master
 
dbj216's Avatar

 
1986 34' Limited
1975 27' Overlander
Conifer , Colorado
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,026
Images: 1
It's looking like a very stout trailer frame indeed. May I ask about the axle specs? Maybe Dexter 3500 pound, 10 inch drums, 32 degree start angle? Just curious.

I suppose the outriggers come next. Then you gotta cut a subfloor that matches the shell corners.

I had never seen such a table mount before. It will not blow over in the wind, that's for sure.

David
__________________

dbj216 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
1968, frame repair, full monte, shell off, tradewind


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Tradewind Twin 1974 - rehab/renovation BryRedWolf 1970-79 Tradewind 11 04-12-2018 07:11 AM
1973 Safari Twin - Parts from renovation for trade LOS ANGELES safairi Airstream Classifieds 1 03-29-2014 06:51 AM
1968 Renovation Almost Complete "Atomic Overlander" hartley1212 General Interior Topics 4 10-11-2011 10:35 AM
Atomic Pod :: 2008 Airstream International Signature Series CCD bolerama Airstream Registry Discussions 0 08-19-2011 08:30 AM
Atomic Airstream Forrest Airstream History 34 01-26-2009 07:20 PM


Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Airstream, Inc. or any of its affiliates. Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:56 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.