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Old 11-18-2014, 06:17 PM   #21
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No jimmy was taller! Looks like you do enjoy the world or hidden rivets and broken drill bits!
Cliff
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Old 11-18-2014, 06:31 PM   #22
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WoW!! Great to follow along on the restoration journey of this '59 TradeWind. Great work Paul. I'm tuned in with my popcorn.

I guess one of the PO's had a skeleton in his closet.

Brad
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Old 11-18-2014, 07:05 PM   #23
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You folks are going to build a great Trade Wind. I'll trade you even up for mine when you're done. That crack looks worse than the skeleton. This trailer certainly needs a new frame, sans skeletons in the closet. Then new axle, disc brakes, big ball coupler... You will have to document your waste water tanks install for us.

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Old 11-18-2014, 07:40 PM   #24
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I love what you are doing, and I like you post in black and white. What was that dead thing?
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Old 11-19-2014, 06:56 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy R View Post
That's exciting, thanks for the update. That critter looks like it was there a LONG time!


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Ha, yes, the bowels of that trailer, like most every other one I see, was very popular with the rodent crowd. There was close to an entire juniper tree used as a plush pad for those little varmits...

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Originally Posted by RM66caravel View Post
No jimmy was taller! Looks like you do enjoy the world or hidden rivets and broken drill bits!
Cliff
Yes, those hidden rivets can be really hard to detect sometimes and yes, you do go through a number of drill bits. I believe I used four #30 drills to remove the perimeter rivets with a 3600 rpm pneumatic drill motor. As soon as they start to slow when cutting I toss them.

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Originally Posted by flyfshr View Post
WoW!! Great to follow along on the restoration journey of this '59 TradeWind. Great work Paul. I'm tuned in with my popcorn.

I guess one of the PO's had a skeleton in his closet.

Brad
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Hey Brad thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbj216 View Post
You folks are going to build a great Trade Wind. I'll trade you even up for mine when you're done. That crack looks worse than the skeleton. This trailer certainly needs a new frame, sans skeletons in the closet. Then new axle, disc brakes, big ball coupler... You will have to document your waste water tanks install for us.

David
Thanks David! You are at the ring side seat...

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Originally Posted by Sbb View Post
I love what you are doing, and I like you post in black and white. What was that dead thing?
Thanks - I like b&w. My camera does a good job, generally, of being able to expose over a fairly wide tonal range in b&w. Sometimes in these types of shots color can be a little distracting.

The critter was formerly a rat - had some really big choppers on him for that size skeleton.
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Old 11-19-2014, 10:42 AM   #26
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Paul, I have a few questions:

- Where are we going to put the spare tire? Should we remove the old batter box on the front and stash it on the tongue? I know we talked about putting it under the tongue maybe above is a better location because it's easier to access & less complexity on the belly pan which means less chance leaks.

- Can we build a bumper box for the slinky/black water (link to example)?

Anyone have any other ideas for us to consider as we get the new frame built?
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Old 11-19-2014, 01:38 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy R View Post
Paul, I have a few questions:

- Where are we going to put the spare tire? Should we remove the old batter box on the front and stash it on the tongue? I know we talked about putting it under the tongue maybe above is a better location because it's easier to access & less complexity on the belly pan which means less chance leaks.

- Can we build a bumper box for the slinky/black water (link to example)?

Anyone have any other ideas for us to consider as we get the new frame built?
Andy,

If it were mine I would seriously consider putting a continental kit or one of the spun aluminum tire covers on the rear since you are building the frame to order. I know Brad has made several attempts at getting an initial production order pulled together for new kits, but it has been some time since he last broached the issue.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f116....html#poststop


Very interested in following your project.

Kevin
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Old 11-19-2014, 01:53 PM   #28
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Andy,

You may have already thought of these.

The 2x4 rectangular steel tube isn't going to give you clearance for water tanks (at least, not the ones from Vintage Trailer Supply). If you can get 2x5, that would have you covered, if you want them.

I'm doing upgrades on our '65's frame, and we've added 3" flat steel braces over the belly skin in the areas the tanks will be installed. The skins should be able to hold them fine, but we figured it wouldn't hurt.

We also added some steel mounting plates with nuts welded on so that we can bolt the stabilizer jacks under the belly skin.
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Old 11-19-2014, 06:12 PM   #29
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Maybe the spare tire can be in the tow vehicle? Most folks don't like weight clear on the rear bumper. Although your new frame will be built for stout. My Trade Wind came with a spare tire "J" hook hanging on the front skins. There was a lot of corrosion between the steel and aluminum. I don't plan on putting it back.

David
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Old 11-19-2014, 06:58 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy R View Post
...

Anyone have any other ideas for us to consider as we get the new frame built?

...
Andy,

We made the same decision to rebuild the entire frame. Colin Hyde did the work, making the following changes:
- replaced coupler with 2 5/16"
- changed angle of a-frame forward
- widened the rails to accept a spare tire below
- added a bumper trunk
- added a rear 2" hitch that we find invaluable for bikes

He talks in detail about the changes in one of the Vap episodes in Dec '12. I'll find the number if you can't. See this thread, starting at post 176.

Love the thread.

John
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Old 11-19-2014, 07:17 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbj216 View Post
Maybe the spare tire can be in the tow vehicle? Most folks don't like weight clear on the rear bumper. Although your new frame will be built for stout. My Trade Wind came with a spare tire "J" hook hanging on the front skins. There was a lot of corrosion between the steel and aluminum. I don't plan on putting it back.
I'd rather have the spare on the trailer just because it would get packed under a bunch of stuff on the tow vehicle.

I've seen some spares mounted to the tongue where they did not touch the skin. I wonder if those mounts are available anywhere?

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Andy,

We made the same decision to rebuild the entire frame. Colin Hyde did the work, making the following changes:
- replaced coupler with 2 5/16"
- changed angle of a-frame forward
- widened the rails to accept a spare tire below
- added a bumper trunk
- added a rear 2" hitch that we find invaluable for bikes

He talks in detail about the changes in one of the Vap episodes in Dec '12. I'll find the number if you can't. See this thread, starting at post 176.
John, thanks for the feedback, good stuff. How do you like the spare underneath? Is it easy to get the spare out? Did it make the belly pan more complex and thus potential for water leaking in if towing in the rain?

I love the idea for a 2" receiver on the back bumper, that's something I definately want.

FYI - I'm hoping we can show this thread to other restoration guys like Colin and that they will consider creating one and interacting with their clients through the forums. It's great for the restoration shops, people can easily see their work, it's a terrific resource for our members, and a nice way to document the process should an owner ever want to sell their trailer. If you know other restoration folks, suggest this to them!
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Old 11-19-2014, 07:51 PM   #32
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Andy,

No issues yet with water leakage on the spare location. The entire bottom of the plywood is covered with automotive undercoating. The tire is easy to remove.

Missed the link on my earlier post -- it's here.

Colin is always buried in work. He is good at communicating with clients, but I seriously doubt he'd have time to update every thread. Doing the VAP for so many years is a MAJOR contribution to the community and I think it might be beyond the call of duty to ask him to do more.

I posted all the pictures he sent and the next trailer in his shop -- also an Overlander -- is documented here. Shelly continues to do a great job updating. I would encourage any client of any good restorer who enjoys these forums to do the same.

John
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Old 11-19-2014, 09:33 PM   #33
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We'll also be converting it to a torsion axle with disk brakes along with a 2 5/16" coupler and electric jack. The finished product will be primed then painted with two part epoxy paint..
Paul

Have you converted any other Airstreams to disk brakes? I want to do this for my Tradewind when I install new axles, so I will be very interested in how this conversion works for you.

Your work so far looks awesome!

Thanks, Dan
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Old 11-20-2014, 06:58 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy R View Post
Paul, I have a few questions:

- Where are we going to put the spare tire? Should we remove the old batter box on the front and stash it on the tongue? I know we talked about putting it under the tongue maybe above is a better location because it's easier to access & less complexity on the belly pan which means less chance leaks.

- Can we build a bumper box for the slinky/black water (link to example)?

Anyone have any other ideas for us to consider as we get the new frame built?
Hi Andy, yes, part of the new design parameters for the frame is to extend the main rails 8" to accept a bumper storage compartment like current production models. The battery can go in a battery box that is located in the frame behind the lp gas tanks. I don't generally go back with the front skin mounted battery box that came from the factory. Also, the frame that we go back with has a longer and different angled tongue to fit the new coupler which with a few other modifications allow for the use of the Airstream factory spare tire carrier. In short the new frame is patterned from a current production model frame.

Leaks wise there is really not a difference. Before the plywood is laid, a sheet of aluminum set in Sikaflex is placed over the opening where the tire will sit. The rest of the belly is riveted and sealed to the frame rails.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FullStop View Post
Andy,

You may have already thought of these.

The 2x4 rectangular steel tube isn't going to give you clearance for water tanks (at least, not the ones from Vintage Trailer Supply). If you can get 2x5, that would have you covered, if you want them.

I'm doing upgrades on our '65's frame, and we've added 3" flat steel braces over the belly skin in the areas the tanks will be installed. The skins should be able to hold them fine, but we figured it wouldn't hurt.

We also added some steel mounting plates with nuts welded on so that we can bolt the stabilizer jacks under the belly skin.
We don't typically use the tanks from VTS - our tanks are not designed to be fully contained within the belly. I use a tank support pan that is 4" deep to contain the tank which allows for the dump valve assembly to exit the side of the tank. The tank pan is bolted to the frame rails and crossmembers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TouringDan View Post
Paul

Have you converted any other Airstreams to disk brakes? I want to do this for my Tradewind when I install new axles, so I will be very interested in how this conversion works for you.

Your work so far looks awesome!

Thanks, Dan
Hi Dan, yes, we have done quite a few disk brake installations. It's a very straightforward process. On a situation like Andy's I order the axle with disk brakes as opposed to drum so as not to pay twice for brakes. If you don't have that option then you can order your axle as a "beam" only and then buy your disk brake kit.

I'm a fan of disk brakes, especially on single axle trailers. I first had disk brakes on our 67 Caravel back in 2005. Roger Williams Airstream talked me into them and the change was dramatic. In 2006 when we bought our International 25' from Williams they installed disk brakes before it was delivered. That trailer now has 130,000 miles and is on it's second set of brake pads. I put disk brakes on our 54 Cruiser when it was rebuilt in 2007. It has performed flawlessly as well.
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Old 11-20-2014, 05:46 PM   #35
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I think you're right on with a 4" deep tank cover "pan" and the drain manifold below the frame rails. It just makes the whole waste water issue easier with more capacity and easier plumbing.

I wonder whos axles you prefer and at what starting angle? Maybe you plan to raise the ground clearance some?

David
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Old 11-20-2014, 05:55 PM   #36
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Hi David I'm lucky in that we have a local axle manufacturer - Rockwell American. I use them 90% of the time and Dexter for the balance. With Rockwell I use a 35 degree down in the applications.
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Old 11-20-2014, 05:59 PM   #37
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I forgot to add that in addition to the 35 down I use 16" wheels which also add some ride height and are better suited to a single axle trailer of this size.
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Old 11-20-2014, 06:31 PM   #38
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Rockwell American! Big outfit. I forgot your trailer is a 59 with leaf springs, or do you convert to torsion arms? With a 35 degree starting angle, and 16" wheels, I'll bet the ride height is 4 inches or more higher.

This trailer is going to last a hundred years!

David
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Old 11-20-2014, 06:40 PM   #39
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Yep we change them over to a torsion axle. It does give a very nice ride height, plenty of ground clearance plus a superior ride to the old leaf springs.
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Old 06-17-2015, 08:39 PM   #40
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An epic winter and rainy spring has the Tradewind project behind schedule. I did hear that Paul made some progress recently and am looking forward to seeing him post some photos here.

We had been hoping to do some camping this summer but that's not looking likely. Hopefully we can go see some pretty fall colors.


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