69 Tradewind Full Monte Renovation in MN

[GoToasterGo]

Originally Posted by TouringDan

I ended up using R15 Roxul along with 1" of Dow Corning Foamular Attachment 289703(R5) for a total of R20. I have installed 1" aluminum angle next to the floor joists to hold up the cellular insulation and to rivet the belly pan to. It should be much easier than blindly locating the 1/2" floor joists.

Dan, that looks great.

I'm actually leaning towards using this stuff now... it has the best R value per inch I could find. I might grab a bit of Roxul too though to stick in the spots that I can't fill with the rigid stuff.


By the way I was thinking about the LP lines the other day. How do you plan to run those into your shell? Would you just drill a hole through the belly pan, the rigid foam, and your floor then hope you get those all lined up? Or maybe use a long auger bit?

[dbj216]

Hi toaster: Your new propane lines should be run below the belly pan with a copper tube vertical through the belly pan, through the insulation, and then through the subfloor as close to the appliance that is practical. You don't want a propane leak between the belly pan and subfloor.

I ran my propane lines from the subfloor down. I used a long 1/4" diameter drill to mark the location both top and bottom, and then I used a holesaw on the subfloor and then the belly pan from underneath. You gotta miss the frame structural members of course. You will have a furnace, a water heater, a fridge, a stove and oven (maybe), and maybe a catalytic heater if you like.

David

[GoToasterGo]

Awesome thanks David. Not sure if I was clear before but yes they will definitely be ran below/outside the belly pan.

[TouringDan]

GTG

I agree with David on how to run the propane lines.

Dan

[GoToasterGo]

So apparently it has been a LONG time since my last post. A lot has happened since then and I'm hoping to have the frame re attached to the shell by the end of the month. I'm going to try and avoid writing out a wall of text here and instead try to sum up most of the work that's been done recently in pictures.

In my last post the frame was at the sand blaster and I was cutting out some pieces of plywood for my floor.

Well I got the frame back and here she is being unloaded.



Next up was getting the floor in place. I made sure all the outriggers, cross members and other frame pieces were well aligned then started lining up my subfloor. I made sure everything stayed in place with about 15 clamps then started with the elevator bolts.

Here's the finished product, featuring my Dad who helped out with the subfloor installation. I also applied a good amount of CPES before installing the subfloor which is the discoloration in the picture.



Also I switched over to ABS wheel wells, the only problem here was that the long flange on the wheel wells was not nearly as thick as the old metal ones. My solution was adding in this piece of stainless to extend the main frame rail outwards enough to attach the wheel well.




Here's the new black tank pan with some insulation in it.


And here's the final black tank.



We also rebuilt the step section of the frame. Reusing what we could and rebuilding some other sections with stainless. I actually don't have a picture of it right now but it looks and works great.


I seem to have a significant gap in pictures but my next pic is this. I got the frame flipped over and am installing my 3 Grey tanks and insulation now. My straps to hold the tanks in should be done Friday and then I can toss the insulation and plumbing in and move onto the belly pan.


Wooh. I probably missed a few things in this post but I'm very happy with the progress so far!

[Minno]

Progress! Looking good!

Kay

[dbj216]

Hi GTG: I figured you were working hard on your trailer before winter sets in, which won't be long in Minnesota.

Hey, I'm sure you checked this. Do your new wheel wells have the necessary clearance for the axle, wheel, and tire package they must "house". I mention this as there is not just a lot of extra room when mounting wheel / tires to my Trade Wind. There is an old saying with rebuilding these Airstream: "You can't change the color of the paint without affecting something else".

I have read about folks who went with 3/4 plywood only to find out the shell won't set down around the step area. Give extra thought to any modifications you might have in mind.

The frame looks good, subfloor looks good, and now you are building the "basement" of your new trailer. Flipped over is the way the Jackson Center factor builds the basements of new trailers. It is much easier than laying on your back.

David

[TouringDan]

GTG

Your frame, floor and tanks look great! Don't think I have ever seen 3 gray water tanks before but more is better.

Dan

[GoToasterGo]

It's amazing how hard it is to keep up with posting my progress on here. At this point I spend every spare minute working on the trailer. Interestingly, the "BIG" projects never take that much time it's all the little things and the prep that are the real time sink.

Kay - it was great meeting you a few weeks back. Thanks for all the knowledge.

Dan - I went with three Grey tanks in anticipation of a lot of boon-docking. This gives me 48 gallons of grey. I only have 30 fresh but the fresh will be easy to upgrade later as it is above the floor. I really don't want to have to get into the " basement area" to any upgrades later.

David - I have some pics of the wheels/ wheel well area that I will post later. They fit great! mostly due to the extra extension I put on the frame to mount them to.

A couple update posts to follow soon.

[GoToasterGo]

Alright, catch up post #1

I got my Metal strapping in for the Grey tanks. The straps straddle the tank and one of the cross members. I also added in some HVAC tape as padding to make it a slightly tighter fit and to stop the metal from cutting the tank. This gives me 48 gallons of grey, 30 fresh, 19 black. I realize the grey is oversized but added to the fresh is easy and can be done later.

I also decided to use rigid foam insulation for most of the underbelly and some ROXUL in the spots that were harder to get to.

Here's two of the tanks connected together and some of the rigid insulation in place.


This is a picture of pretty much all the insulation in the middle section of the underbelly and all the tanks in place.
Take note of the step area, that's been completely rebuilt in mostly stainless and some re used parts, but at this point it's basically a replica.


Here's me checking out how the old belly pan went on.


And here's the belly pan starting to go on.


I didn't want to be guessing if I ever had to get into the belly pan again so I marked the main frame rails, grey tanks, plumbing and anything else I thought might be important. Here's the finished product with my girlfriend showing off her drilling skills on the other side. I didn't put the last piece of the belly pan on as I have to figure out some parts of my bathroom first. Primarily where the shower drain is gonna be.

[GoToasterGo]

As usual if you're interested in anything I did or have any questions let me know. There's always a lot more pics then what I show on here. I've also got a lot more progress to post but that'll have to come at another day.

[utahredrock]

Go Toaster Go!

[GoToasterGo]

Originally Posted by utahredrock

Go Toaster Go!

Jim! Nice to see the airforums/instagram crossover.

[GoToasterGo]

This post is a little long but I think people need to be aware of these things when dealing with supplier like this. The short version is I installed the axles after a few mods, buying new fasteners, and having custom shock stud extenders fabricated for me.

I got around to installing the axles back in August and they look great now that they are on and installed. Unfortunately I ran into a good number of issues with these axles. I purchased them from a certain well known distributor down in California who like many on these forums will never do business with again. I really wanted to get a hold of Colin Hyde and order them from him but could not get through to him.

So let's start at the top.

First I called the shop, which for the purposes of this post I'll refer to them as OutWater RV. After leaving my name and number I eventually got a call back from a blocked number(great way to do business) and spoke with an older gentleman who I had a few questions for. He was annoyed at my questions and exclaimed "I've been doing this longer than anyone else, if I can't get it right no one can." I was annoyed with this but wasn't sure if I had any other options.

The axles were going to arrive at a redneck trailers shop near me in a few weeks. After a few weeks passed I called Outwater again and was told that someone quit and paperwork was all messed up and I should call Redneck. So I called Redneck they had no idea about my order. To cut a long story short Redneck was great "Outwater" was not. My axles arrived about 6 weeks later.


Now that I have my axles I first had to weld on the shock brackets. Unfortunately I had already given my old axles to a scrapper, but no problem the axles came with a handy set of instructions. I followed the picture exactly and mounted the shock bracket as far outward as possible, EXACTLY as the picture showed (this is important for later).

Got the axles under the trailer tried to slide them into the old axle slots and the slots were way too small. This isn't a huge deal except that I was specifically told they would fit. I pulled out the angle grinder and got to work.
Here's the widened hole.



Sweet, I got a nice hole cut and now I'll toss this crazy heavy axles up in there throw a couple bolts in and done....NOPE!

Either the holes were off originally or the way I ended up grinding out the axle slot has made the holes not line up. See image below.


Angle grinder obviously won't fit. A drill isn't going to work if you don't have a center for it to start from. Luckily a dremel fit in there and I could slowly grind away that section of the axle to get the bolt through. PITA!

Alright let's toss in the bolt, washer and split washer that were specifically sent for this job. NOPE! Why at this point did I assume anything was going to work. The fastener kit that was an extra add on came with the below fasteners.



It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that the bolt is WAY too small. The nut barely even has room to thread on when the split washer and flat washer are on it. Ridiculous! Fastenal trip for longer bolts.

Finally got the bolts in and axles bolted up. Now lets just slide these here shocks and I'll finally be done with this...not so fast now, we need one more headache!

Because I followed the instructions sent to me the shock now sits too far out from the main frame rail and doesn't line up properly with shock stud. Luckily I have a good connection to a mechanical engineer with a machine shop so I'll get a custom extension in for that stud and I should be good to go.

Moral of the story is don't rush to buy Axles from a business with only bad reviews because you think you need them now. At this point I really wish I had found a different avenue for acquiring my axles.

[GoToasterGo]

My apologize for the rant in the last post but that brought back some very frustrating memories. So on a brighter note check out my favorite video I have taken so far while working on the Airstream.



Those gantries were so very worth it, they also double as a great ladder for getting onto the roof!

[GoToasterGo]

Getting caught up with some more build updates now.

Here's the frame with the axles on and as you can see there is ample room in the wheel well area. So I should be pretty clear from any interference there.



I can't remember if I showed this off before or not but here's a couple more pictures of the rebuilt step. This is fully based off of the original design and is basically a replica.





Now the next step in process was a big one. Getting the shell back on. Here's a pic of a bunch of old guys, and me, getting the shell ready to have the frame back underneath.



I wish I would have taken all of the C channel off the shell and placed it on the subfloor but the c channel was actually holding the shell up while the frame was out so I couldn't do that. With that being said the frame actually slid back under quite nicely. I had to mess with the rear end a bit as the c channel was pretty messed up back there but it all came together and looks great now.

Even the dogs helped out a little.



Next up are some pics of the inside from a few weeks back.





I ended up using some poly to cover up all the window areas and any other spots that could leak to water getting on my nice new subfloor. Here's a pic from the front shortly after the shell was placed back on the frame.



And here's a picture I just took a couple hours ago. I'm in Minnesota so the sun goes down very early this time of year. As you can see I've got the front banana wrap on, the lights are back on, and the ?belt? is put back on as well.

The rear hasn't been all tucked away yet as I am still trying to finish the waste plumbing in the bathroom area.

I'm really hoping to keep these posts a little more current now but we'll see if that happens.

[dbj216]

Hello GTG in Minnesota: You did it! You have essentially a new frame with the shell back on. Getting it sealed up before winter is important. Maybe you have a heated garage for the winter's work? Glad to see your dog and cat helping out.

Axles are a PITA. You have overcome the nightmare. You did that too. My axles were Axis from Colin Hyde and he specifically told me they will require modification to the frame. But the shock mounts were correct. I made a template and started grinding slots and drilling holes. Colin Hyde did well by me in 2013. We were living in Delano, MN, at the time.

I need new axles on my 86 Limited, all three of them! I think the major manufacturer of torsion axles is now Dexter. My local commercial trailer retail outlet carries Dexter and claims they can order new axles from Dexter to the exact configuration. I will bring my old axle to their store and watch them fill out the order. If it isn't an exact replica and won't fit, I'll take'm back. It might be an easier way to go. Your axles may be made by Dexter.

David

[TouringDan]

GTG

You certainly had major problems with your axles. My only problems installing axles in my Tradewind were improperly located shock mounts on one side (Airstream QC problems) and my own stupid mistake of twisting off one of the upper shock mounts. I was glad that I ordered from Colin.

Your frame and subfloor looks great. Nice job of getting the shell back on.

Dan

[GoToasterGo]

Dan and David,

Great to see your both still following the build. My next area of concern is the bathroom. My girlfriend has grand plans for it and I am trying to make those happen. It's hard to describe all of her plans through text here but essentially we plan on building out a new wet bath where we will tile most of the bathroom or at least anywhere that has any potential of seeing water and then put down some teak slats on the floor over the tile. The bathroom is located in the rear and I was wondering if either of you had any thoughts on the following:

1. I have a good friend who specializes in bathroom renovations (residential) and he recommend trying the Schluter Kerdi system for the shower pan and water proofing but replacing the standard thin set mortar with a high flex version. Here's a link to their site:

https://www.schluter.com/schluter-us...er-System/c/SS

2. Any other suggestions for building a custom shower pan in the rear that will essentially encompass the entire bathroom.

I am trying to solve this issue now as finishing up the waste water plumbing in the rear is what is holding me back from finishing the rear section of the exterior(belly pan, banana wrap, etc).

[dbj216]

I got an idea; forget the shower part. Who needs a shower anyway? A total waste of clean water. Think "Navy shower". When I lived in Minnesota, I would just take a dip in the lake after a long bike ride. Refreshing and the dirt was gone. Many state parks and RV parks have a bath house if you get desperate. Traveling in an Airstream is a lot different than a cruise ship. You have to give up some of the luxuries in life.

The Trade Wind had a tub in it originally. My 75 Overlander also has a tub. A tub sold a lot of trailer to folks who thought it was just like home. Airstreams don't have tubs anymore.

There are many configurations of shower pans out there. I purchased a 2'x2' fiberglass one for my rear bath. It's a bit small. Airstream has several configurations of shower pans thermoformed in plastic, ABS I think. I don't know enough about "flex tile" and some of these modern materials. But I do know the rear of the trailer is one bouncy place to be at 60 mph on rough pavement.

I recommend to stick with traditional construction techniques that are proven over time. Here is how my rear bath turned out. Not fancy, but functional. Your girlfriend wouldn't like it.

David