OK, I decided to formalize my sketch a bit by quickly drawing it in AutoCAD. Hopefully the attached PDF file is clear enough but if not please let me know. The general idea is based on a few main principles and/or material types as follows:
1.) The molding shown attached to the inner Airstream walls is a flexible plastic molding of a type that I have found at Home Depot. It comes in white or a couple of wood grain finishes. The important characteristics are that it is flexible enough to follow the curve of the wall and it holds staples. Its overall dimensions are something like 3/8" x 3/4" or so. I envision attaching it to the wall with pop rivets every so often. If it were to be a permanent installation I would probably use some type of adhesive.
2.) The aluminum screen frame material is pretty interesting stuff. Again I found it at Home Depot in the window screen department. It is also about 3/8" x 3/4" in dimensions. The neat thing is that it is available in several colors and mill finish aluminum in lengths up to 7'. That is long enough to go from floor to ceiling in an Airstream. I don't see any reason why fabric couldn't be used instead of sceen in the slotted edge of the frame. If the fabric is too thick you would at least have to consider a smaller diameter rubber gasket bead.
3.) I though it should be possible to find some appropriate type of hinge. It occurred to me that what might work nicely is the plastic strip hinge if it could be found with a leg dimension of 3/4".
4.) I have not zeroed in on a type of latch for a door opening but there should be several types of things that would work including perhaps magnetic cabinet latches.
5.) The screen frames also have nice corner brackets and optional cross members for tall screens that would give extra stiffness if that is needed.
For the walls on either side of a door the general idea is to attach the fabric to the aluminum screen frames first and secure the vertical frame members. Then with just one strip of plastic trim on the wall and floor (maybe aluminum frame on floor too?) I would carefully stretch and staple the fabric to the trim. Once that was done I would add the second piece of trim to cover the staples and give a more finished. look.
I am not sure what the best thing to use for attaching the aluminum trim to the ceiling and floor would be. Perhaps just a simple small L shaped bracket would be fine.
Anyway I hope this launches some creative thinking on the use of fabric for walls - whether temporary or permanent.
I think that I might also post this in a new thread for discussion specifically about fabric walls.
I just posted this message in support: (so I am testing to see if this post is going to show up; new forum software might be having some glitches, or maybe something on my browser is not working properly, on all of the Macs I use, too)
Hi, Support Folks,
I am missing posts that people have added to my thread since 6/8. Today, I see that someone added a post this afternoon, but it does not appear in the thread.
Here's the thread:
1968 Trade Wind: rearranging the interior: rear bed / bath
The last post I see -- and I have hit "refresh" on the browser a few times to be sure my browser isn't loading a previously cached page -- is 6/8/08 at 5:07 a.m.
I see in my User CP where my thread is subscribed, that someone posted today at 3:36 p.m.
Please advise me on how to find the missing posts since 6/8/08.
I am very excited. I slid a sheet of lauan plywood in for making the floor pattern. It's a very good fit.
I have a broken floor/U channel making some trouble. I hope to be able to splice or somehow reinforce this break.
I posted a lot of photos with captions on my iWeb site. Have a look!
I'm going to make it! I just have a few more things to do before putting in the Nyloboard:
Clean all the interior aluminum
POR-15 on the frame
Then, before going camping in a couple of weeks:
Order the elevator bolts
Shim the transition from Nyloboard to plywood
Order more clecoes
Order more rivets
Make up my mind about plumbing, electrical, relocating the "master suite"
Get over aversion to cutting any holes in the Nyloboard
Clean the belly pan
Install new insulation
Sometime in all of this, I'll to to work and take care of household chores, go to softball games, supervise swimming, run errands, pay attention to the garden.
Some dude said women don't get aluminitis. I think I have it. I'm already thinking about how I can make a cap for the bed of my Chevy using 2024 T3 aluminum; replacing all of the plastic cowling of my Buddy scooter with aluminum; making a dog house out of aluminum.
I'm dreaming. I have lots of energy after dry-fitting the lauan. I'll attach a couple of photos here.
I like what you are doing with your website. I should have started something like that myself. I have not started a single chronological remodel thread about my Airstream because the overall amount of time is taking so long. I do have lots of photos that I have been taking along the way though. I have mostly had to content myself with focused topic based postings. Actually I have been enjoying participating in the forums at least as much as working on my Airstream.
In one of your photos I noticed that you made a comment about loading up the 1/8" bit with rivets and then throwing it away. I found that if you have a reversible drill that you can get the rivets off the drill bit pretty easily by grabbing a hold of some with your pliers and running the drill in reverse.
You also mentioned in your postings that you were going to use clecos to hold interior panels in place while you go camping. If you have places where the clecos would get in the way you can use a few pan head screws instead of clecos. I believe that I read somewhere in the forums that Andy at Inland RV recommends using the screws instead of clecos. You could also temporarily hold inner panels in place by re-installing a few rivets. It is not that hard to drill them out later if you need to.
Have you figured out how to get all your posts updated?
The software issues are better. I can't use the hybrid display option. That seems to be where the bug lives. The linear display works ok.
I like using the iWeb program on my Mac. It's pretty easy to drag photos from iPhoto, choose a layout, and go on. Thanks for taking a look.
I'm out today to cut the lauan pattern and keep moving with the floor repair. I think I won't use the router on the Nyloboard. If all goes well, and I gradually bring repairs along, I want the Nyloboard to be consistent. So, I think I'll try shimming the floor channel at least for the distance of a foot or so from the transition in flooring to the wheel well. That should help at least that far. I'll see how it goes.
If you saw the broken floor channel on my web site, do you have any suggestions? I think I can bend aluminum channel, but I can't put the curve in it. I tried ordering curved pieces from Inland RV, but they don't have it. I'm puzzling over some kind of temporary but safe fix until I can get some curved channel.
Pressing on,
Anne
Quote:
Originally Posted by malconium
Anne,
I like what you are doing with your website. I should have started something like that myself. I have not started a single chronological remodel thread about my Airstream because the overall amount of time is taking so long. I do have lots of photos that I have been taking along the way though. I have mostly had to content myself with focused topic based postings. Actually I have been enjoying participating in the forums at least as much as working on my Airstream.
In one of your photos I noticed that you made a comment about loading up the 1/8" bit with rivets and then throwing it away. I found that if you have a reversible drill that you can get the rivets off the drill bit pretty easily by grabbing a hold of some with your pliers and running the drill in reverse.
You also mentioned in your postings that you were going to use clecos to hold interior panels in place while you go camping. If you have places where the clecos would get in the way you can use a few pan head screws instead of clecos. I believe that I read somewhere in the forums that Andy at Inland RV recommends using the screws instead of clecos. You could also temporarily hold inner panels in place by re-installing a few rivets. It is not that hard to drill them out later if you need to.
Have you figured out how to get all your posts updated?
I wouldn't worry to much about trying to make a curved splice for the broken section of the channel. Just make a curved bottom section to follow the contour about 3 inches on each side of the crack with a piece of aluminum that is at least the same thickness as original, Thicker is OK to. Then bolt the the whole mess together through the subfloor. I wouldn't worry about the vertical flanges.
Thanks! That's encouraging, to not worry about the vertical flanges.
I've been meaning to ask some aircraft parts questions:
First, about the nut plates you used in the belly pan. I found some examples here. If you use these, then the nuts will not vibrate out over time? And it's easier to service the belly pan area? Since these are aircraft parts, I would think the use would be good for Airstream, too.
I wonder if this one would be suitable for Airstream belly pan? I'm referring to the one marked 10-32 68A12-02 ALUM(high profile) 1.00
These would be great, especially in the areas of the holding tank/s.
This same company, Airparts Inc. Homepage, says that 2024 T3 .032 is typically used for the skin, and 2024-0 .025 is used for the belly pan. I had been thinking about .040 for the skin, and 6061T6 for making ribs and C and U channel, at .063 gauge. What's best?
Are these solid rivets used for the skin repairs, or ... what? And the size? I'm confused here, because I'm using 5/32 clecoes in most existing rivet holes. They don't seem to have this size. The Olympic rivets are 5/32". I'm ok with using Olympics, but I have a big area of skin replacement and I was hoping to use solid rivets there. I need to go back and dig through bookmarks and find that discussion on rivets between you/Aerowood and Zep. Most informative and detailed.
Also, one more question: how does a hole duplicating tool work? I understand that the nib on one side goes into the existing hole in a rib or another piece of metal, and it's used for locating new holes where they should be drilled, but that's as far as I know.
OK, Teacher; Grasshopper is waiting for the Zen moment.
Anne
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerowood
I wouldn't worry to much about trying to make a curved splice for the broken section of the channel. Just make a curved bottom section to follow the contour about 3 inches on each side of the crack with a piece of aluminum that is at least the same thickness as original, Thicker is OK to. Then bolt the the whole mess together through the subfloor. I wouldn't worry about the vertical flanges.
Anne, Great job your doing. I can address some of your questions. First Kip (aerowood) is the aircraft expert. You can probably get him to address the nutplate and strap duplicator issues. As far as thicknesses of 2024 T3 for the panel repairs use .040 for the side straight sections. They are more rigid and probably give a smoother end result. I'd use .032 for panel replacement with any curve as its easier to work with. For belly pan I'm using 5052 H32 .025, but you could use .032 (just harder to bend). Pretty good corosion resistance , not real exspensive and bends OK. But for belly you could use almost any aluminum alloy. Cost plays an important role here.
As for solid rivets I got mine from Genuine aircraft co. but others such as aircraft spruce carry them. You do want 5/32 rivets. What you need to order is MS20470AD5-?. The -? is either-4, -5, or perhaps -6. You can sometimes get-4.5 . You would use mostly 4, 4.5 or 5. This refers to the length of the stem on the mushroom shaped rivet.
Also solid or buck rivets require the inside walls be off and it is a 2 perso job. One to rivet the other to hold a bucking bar on the inside. Thus you will need a rivet gun (which requires a compressor to run it) and a bucking bar. if any of this is clear as mud ask more questions. I know I had zero understanding of this initially. Ed
Ed, thanks very much for the details. I was looking at an order form, thinking I had what I needed and didn't, so now I do.
I'll check out Genuine before I place my order with the other company. Maybe there are more options.
I'm having a good time with this project, but starting to feel some pressure of the deadline coming up to take a family camping trip with a bunch of friends. Every time they come over, I'm out working on the Airstream, so it's time to start showing some results. It's hard to explain all that goes on between the floor and the tires on the ground, but that's where I've been spending a lot of time in the past month.
I ordered POR-15 products today, more clecoes, now got to commit on the aluminum sheets and rivets -- the most visible parts!
Thanks for checking in and offering some much-appreciated advice.
It's worthwhile spending considerable time on the frame. You'll be glad you have a good undercarriage. The por 15 is good stuff. Really dries rock hard, but also on your skin, so cover up as much as possible! Continue your great work. Ed
Nutplates have (or most all) a locking feature to prevent the fastener from backing out. I would not use the one one you picked as it has a fiber lock and will lose its locking feature after a couple of installs. It also does not have a floating feature. I would use a floating style mechanical lock P/N MS21059-3 or -L3
Strap duplicators have a pilot on one side and are available in all the rivet sizes. The other side has a hole through the strap that lines up with the pilot . They have limited use around the perimeter of a panel only.
The information Ed gave you on rivets and belly ban skins is all correct.
You know about multiple intelligences? Well, I'm the type who has to visualize something before or while I am learning it experientially. So, puzzling over rivets and stuff, I got stuck on this strap duplicator tool.
Provide an accurate means of drilling duplicate matching holes in
over-lapping sheets. Hole to be duplicated is drilled though bushing
when pilot is in place.
That helps a lot. I think it would help to have some photos or video of this tool being used, preferably on an Airstream project, especially replacing a sheet of exterior or interior skin.
I think I get it, but, it seems that the tool is only useful for edges or as far as the tool's depth would permit a sheet to go. That's cool, and would account for placing most of the rivets for a skin replacement. I suppose any rivets that have to go beyond the reach of the tool would be done from the inside.
I am assuming, also, that simply placing a new sheet over the old sheet and marking the holes is not the best way to go.
But, if I cut and replace a section, not a whole sheet, to replace, like I am contemplating doing with the area with the torn skin from a wheel coming off, and there are no old holes to go by, or the skin is too mangled to use as a template, this tool would be good to use. Here's what I am thinking:
Cut a section of the torn skin area in an aesthetically pleasing dimension and proportion.
The existing skin will become the overlapping skin for the new section.
Mark and drill new holes in the edges of the existing skin and frame members (might have to add frame members by bending and installing C-channel).
Drill a set of pilot holes to set the new sheet in place.
Place the sheet with pilots with clecoes
Use the strap duplicator to locate the holes in the existing sheet, drill through the bushing into the new sheet. This drilling takes place from inside the trailer?
Or, is the existing sheet with its new holes located on the bottom with the new sheet overlaid for the purpose of drilling the new holes, then the new sheet is removed and placed under the old overlapping sheet? D'oh! I'm stuck.
I'm a true Boomer -- totally visual-image oriented. Anybody got any photos or video?
I'm searching the web, finding all kinds of useful stuff, but no strap duplicator in action. Another Grasshopper moment: when I am ready, a teacher will appear.
Nutplates have (or most all) a locking feature to prevent the fastener from backing out. I would not use the one one you picked as it has a fiber lock and will lose its locking feature after a couple of installs. It also does not have a floating feature. I would use a floating style mechanical lock P/N MS21059-3 or -L3
Strap duplicators have a pilot on one side and are available in all the rivet sizes. The other side has a hole through the strap that lines up with the pilot . They have limited use around the perimeter of a panel only.
The information Ed gave you on rivets and belly ban skins is all correct.
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