Our newest baby....1959 Pacer

[ND10CentCan]

Originally Posted by 3Ms75Argosy

Can you just ask the local DMV or state patrol to run the licience plate to tell you who last owned it? No sense worrying until there's a reason too. Good luck!

I did call the ND DMV awhile back when I was starting to worry about actually, really getting the title to this trailer. They said the only way for me to get a title was to have the current title holder sign it over to me. Okay...so I contacted the PO and he says "Don't worry. You'll get the title."

So today I journeyed down in person with all of my documentation and waited in line until I got to sit down with a real live ND DMV person. She said I could not get any information from them because I am not the title holder of that trailer. About five minutes later she said if I want information on the last title owner I would have to fill out a form and pay $3. I did that and when I got the last titled owner's name and date it was last registered, SURPRISE!! it wasn't the PO!!

Now she said I have to contact this person, get them to sign the title over to me. Hm...the plot thickens. I don't really know what to do except to either wait for the PO to figure it out and it seems he is in no hurry or to try to track down the first owner. I would think she is likely no longer living because it was hers in 1959. The DMV lady said if she isn't living, then I have to find the heirs of this woman and get them to sign it over to me.

So I learned another thing about this whole "story" today. I am puttting off calling the seller because I don't want to say anything I would regret. I want to confront him about "losing the title" because obviously he never titled it in ND because it hasn't been titled since 1959. Now could it be that the original paper copy of the title had been signed over by that lady and never recorded to subsequent buyers? Of course, but that doesn't leave me in a good position.

The DMV lady said the only recourse I have is to pursue something in civil court against the seller. Which I may just end up doing but it sure stinks.

Why can't people just be upfront and honest????
Sandy

[ND10CentCan]

Originally Posted by Splitrock

I wanted to respect other people's property. I wanted to contact the owner before I had their vehicle towed. The owner did eventually show up and move the vehicle and I didn't have it towed. The moral of this story is the state of South Dakota didn't release the name of the title owner.

It's different if a person owns real estate. I can just go to a web page, type in the address and see the owner of record, see the amount owed on their taxes, if they paid the taxes, and see the assessed value. Owners of vehicles here is a big secret.

It is a pretty big secret here too. If I hadn't persisted I wouldn't still know who holds the title. It might be easier to get into the secret service or FBI than get this info. I don't blame the DMV; none of this had to be an issue if the PO had done what he said and be honest from the start.

[worldinchaos]

Originally Posted by ND10CentCan

I did call the ND DMV awhile back when I was starting to worry about actually, really getting the title to this trailer. They said the only way for me to get a title was to have the current title holder sign it over to me. Okay...so I contacted the PO and he says "Don't worry. You'll get the title."

So today I journeyed down in person with all of my documentation and waited in line until I got to sit down with a real live ND DMV person. She said I could not get any information from them because I am not the title holder of that trailer. About five minutes later she said if I want information on the last title owner I would have to fill out a form and pay $3. I did that and when I got the last titled owner's name and date it was last registered, SURPRISE!! it wasn't the PO!!

Now she said I have to contact this person, get them to sign the title over to me. Hm...the plot thickens. I don't really know what to do except to either wait for the PO to figure it out and it seems he is in no hurry or to try to track down the first owner. I would think she is likely no longer living because it was hers in 1959. The DMV lady said if she isn't living, then I have to find the heirs of this woman and get them to sign it over to me.

So I learned another thing about this whole "story" today. I am puttting off calling the seller because I don't want to say anything I would regret. I want to confront him about "losing the title" because obviously he never titled it in ND because it hasn't been titled since 1959. Now could it be that the original paper copy of the title had been signed over by that lady and never recorded to subsequent buyers? Of course, but that doesn't leave me in a good position.

The DMV lady said the only recourse I have is to pursue something in civil court against the seller. Which I may just end up doing but it sure stinks.

Why can't people just be upfront and honest????
Sandy

Well, although possession is many tenths of the law, and you could just go to this site and fork over a little dough: https://www.getnewtitle.com/pricing.html

..I'm now also scared of what if someone actually is missing this trailer. What if the PO sold it to make some cash, but it actually belonged to his family, extended family, friend, business partner, or god forbid, it was stolen. In that scenario it may be most honest to make sure the trailer IS returned to the rightful owner, and take him to civil court.

But obviously it was not being taken care of and I want to you to take care of this poor little Pacer

I really hope this all works out.

[overlander64]

Originally Posted by worldinchaos

Well, although possession is many tenths of the law, and you could just go to this site and fork over a little dough: https://www.getnewtitle.com/pricing.html

..I'm now also scared of what if someone actually is missing this trailer. What if the PO sold it to make some cash, but it actually belonged to his family, extended family, friend, business partner, or god forbid, it was stolen. In that scenario it may be most honest to make sure the trailer IS returned to the rightful owner, and take him to civil court.

But obviously it was not being taken care of and I want to you to take care of this poor little Pacer

I really hope this all works out.

While I am not familiar with the practice in North Dakota, but I would suspect that the DMV would have had a flag on the coach's title if it had been reported stolen. Several years ago when my aunt's Chevrolet was stolen, we were told that its title would be flagged as stolen and if anyone ever tried to title it a report would be immediately forwarded to the authorities . . . . and sure enough, almost two years later someone tried to title it in Ohio and the car was recovered and returned to the insurance company who had long since paid off the stolen vehicle claim. I would suspect that even an inquiry about the vehicle, particularly from within state would have resulted in the news that it had been flagged as stolen if such had been the case.

My suspicion is that the immediate previous owner may have purchased the coach from the owner or their estate. To avoid transfer fees, taxes, and registration the previous owner likely never officially transferred the title . . . likely posessing a title signed-over, but with purchaser's name and information blank. If such is the case, the immediate previous owner may be having difficulty obtaining a copy of what may have been an "executor's" title transfer document . . . . I know when I received executor's titles to a couple of automobiles several years ago, I was cautioned to process the transfers immediately to avoid potential difficulties with transfers past the closing date of the estate.

Kevin

P.S.: If I were concerned that the coach may have been reported stolen, I would be tempted to take all of my documentation to either my city police department or county sheriff's office . . . carefully explain the situation and ask if they would check to see if the coach my have been reported stolen.

[3Ms75Argosy]

I suspect that it's not stolen. but rather "acquired" through a land buy or estate sale... but... you got to get it figured out so that you can rightfully call it your own. You might want to do a web search of the local paper and see if there's an obituary notice of the P.O... the heirs are usually noted there. That will give you hopefully a name to call...
Wow... keep us posted!
Marc

[worldinchaos]

Yeah I guess my point is with it being friends, extended family, etc, it might not have been reported stolen necessarily, but there could be a dispute of ownership and the other owners or rightful owners are off and about touring the country and will return to find that the trailer they thought they owned in whole or part to be gone.

I guess I'm looking at this from the perspective of a boat owner. My boat is in a slip in a harbor, and I hear all the gossip, and this sort of stuff happens way too often, where 3 guys own a boat, and 1 guy isn't responding, but it was only titled under one name, and the other two sell it, and the third guy finally comes back after 8 months to take it out for a sail or spin, and finds it sold with information on where to go to get his check (maybe).

I know it is often a different scenario with trailers in that regard and multiple owners are less frequent occurrences, but I just wanted to bring up one version of the worst case scenario that I am alluding to. It is highly unlikely.

I think a lot of google investigation may get you farther than you know.

[ND10CentCan]

I did a Google search and found two listings for a person who could be the original owner. Of course I have no idea if she is the original owner or not. I think what has happened is that the PO I bought from never bothered to title it in his name so he needs to get that taken care of. I think when he told me he had the title and it was lost in the flood meant the actual piece of paper was lost and he needed to get it fixed. At least I hope that is the situation.

My fear in trying to contact the original owner (if I can track her down) is to further complicate the process and maybe cause more problems than are necessary. I know it hasn't been reported stolen because it came back from the ND DMV as titled and all the info matched what I had on the numbers. I specifically asked if there was a chance it was stolen and she said nothing that they had listed it on any alerts. I am going to wait a few weeks and see what happens. Hopefully it will be resolved correctly and I can add this to my long list of items in my novel. I have many plans for this trailer that await the title.

Thanks everyone for the advice and keep your fingers crossed.
Sandy

[ND10CentCan]

Here is the Pacer as it sits in the snow.

[wasagachris]

Sandy I'm glad she has a safe spot next to the rookery for the winter. It doesn't look like you've had too much snow yet.
I think you have a very valuable and rare camera that can take pictures from the future judging from the date on the photos. Is that what Bismarck will look like tomorrow night?

[ND10CentCan]

Originally Posted by wasagachris

Sandy I'm glad she has a safe spot next to the rookery for the winter. It doesn't look like you've had too much snow yet.
I think you have a very valuable and rare camera that can take pictures from the future judging from the date on the photos. Is that what Bismarck will look like tomorrow night?

This is time travel ND style!!
Sandy

[ND10CentCan]

Still no title and I called the PO today and he doesn't answer the phone. I left a message and will see if he returns the call. Hmmm...what's next? Last time I contacted him was December 8th and he said he had filled out paperwork to get the title. It is now close to 20 days later and I haven't heard from him.

I may just make a personal appearance to see him if he doesn't call me back. Luckily I know where he works. Hate to do that but he needs to answer my calls and get me the title. I am nothing if not persistent.
Sandy

[TG Twinkie]

If you make a personal appearance you should take some "BIG BURLY GUY" with you and make him an offer "HE Can't Refuse". If you know what I mean. Maybe a couple of Big Guys.
Good Luck!!

[worldinchaos]

Originally Posted by ND10CentCan

Still no title and I called the PO today and he doesn't answer the phone. I left a message and will see if he returns the call. Hmmm...what's next? Last time I contacted him was December 8th and he said he had filled out paperwork to get the title. It is now close to 20 days later and I haven't heard from him.

I may just make a personal appearance to see him if he doesn't call me back. Luckily I know where he works. Hate to do that but he needs to answer my calls and get me the title. I am nothing if not persistent.
Sandy

Just be safe please Shari. We have a family friend who recently went to a seemingly fine contractor's home (who had been pleasant until he failed to provide completion of a project after being paid 90% or so of the cost). I wont go into too much detail, but he was assaulted on the front door of the property, and then the family filed charges against him. Coincidentally two members of that contractor's family served in the local government, and when the case was brought to the local courts, our friend was convicted. He is now serving a sentence and waiting for appeals because he went to the unresponsive contractor's home to ask him why the job had been unfinished for months.

I know this is a rare one-off event, but in a situation like yours, please, please, make sure you are finding ways to protect things like that from happening (bring a friend, etc.)

[ND10CentCan]

Originally Posted by TG Twinkie

If you make a personal appearance you should take some "BIG BURLY GUY" with you and make him an offer "HE Can't Refuse". If you know what I mean. Maybe a couple of Big Guys.
Good Luck!!

The PO called me back today about an hour ago after I left another message for him this morning. I was hoping he would realize I wasn't planning to give up on getting the title. I am not sure if he thinks we are going to be content with an expensive lawn ornament instead of a trailer we can go camping in.

The newest story is that he has been sick and should have the title to me within a week. "No problem!" is his infamous reply to my inquiry as to why I don't have a title. He said something about his friend, his friend's ex girlfriend, and he should have it to me in a week.

He also said he would be willing to buy the trailer back from me "So I wouldn't have any hassle." HASSLE? You have got to be kidding me. I said "I bought the trailer and you said you would furnish me with the title as a condition of the sale. Here it is two months later and all I have had is hassle."

I do have some friends that might not be so kind as I have been or....maybe as stupid as I have been. I also told him I am sending him a ND seller's bill of sale and he needs to sign it with a notary, and mail it back to me so I can take that to the DMV in hopes they will accept it and get me a title. I am hoping one of the two mentioned ways will get him moving in the right direction.

This is turning into a soap opera and I hate drama. Ugh....
Sandy

[ND10CentCan]

Originally Posted by worldinchaos

Just be safe please Shari. We have a family friend who recently went to a seemingly fine contractor's home (who had been pleasant until he failed to provide completion of a project after being paid 90% or so of the cost). I wont go into too much detail, but he was assaulted on the front door of the property, and then the family filed charges against him. Coincidentally two members of that contractor's family served in the local government, and when the case was brought to the local courts, our friend was convicted. He is now serving a sentence and waiting for appeals because he went to the unresponsive contractor's home to ask him why the job had been unfinished for months.

I know this is a rare one-off event, but in a situation like yours, please, please, make sure you are finding ways to protect things like that from happening (bring a friend, etc.)

Thanks for that info. I would not go alone and I would go to where he works and be nice and civil. I would plant my rear end in the chair in his office and make myself at home. I think he would not want some nice lady and her friends sitting in his office asking for a title especially since his employer would likely be interested in this since he sells trailers for a living. Could be rather embarrassing for his line of work don't you think?

I am hoping he gets it to me within one week or I may have to go the Highway Patrol version and I am guessing a couple of those gentlemen appearing at his place would make an impression. Why can't people just do the right thing???? Geez, I hate having to do this.
Sandy

[Splitrock]

Years ago when I was young and not so street smart, I bought some real estate on a contract for deed. I paid it off early of the three year due date but the seller wouldn't supply me with a satisfaction of terms or issue me a deed. After repeated attempts, I sued him for the deed and $50,000 USD. He didn't respond to the suit . . .but his wife did and I had her attention, I had the deed in my attorney's office in less than three weeks from the date he was served. I did settle with him for the deed and a cash from him to me settlement of a few thousand.

Now if I'd buy real estate on a seller financing, I'd do a purchase/seller financing and not a CFD. CFD's work if the deed is held in escrow with a title insurance company, with title insurance issued on the date of the origination of the CFD. Then all the buyer has to do is prove the payments were made to the title insurance company and the title is released and filed with the register of deeds at the county. Under those arrangements, the seller can die or move out of the country and the deed will transfer with no problems.

Vehicles in my world . . . are cash for vehicle, and title, no exceptions. Exception = no sale.

In South Dakota, obtaining money by making a promise and then not delivering on the promise is called fraud. I'd sue for the title + $50,000 cash + attorney's fees + discovery and court costs and I'd do it today.

[ole-red]

I am having a problem not as bad as yours, but has to to with the DMV in Pennsylvania. I bought a trailer, met the owner at their bank, paid the note off and the rest of the money went to the owner...I had the owner give me a bill of sale, and the bank was going to send notification to the DMV to send me a paper title....That has been since the middle of October, and no title yet....I can't get the DMV to even give me any information because apparently they have the wrong address on me...But the owner is really nice and she has called them, and hopefully I will hear something in a few days...But the DMV will not tell me anything...

[ND10CentCan]

Originally Posted by Splitrock

Years ago when I was young and not so street smart, I bought some real estate on a contract for deed. I paid it off early of the three year due date but the seller wouldn't supply me with a satisfaction of terms or issue me a deed. After repeated attempts, I sued him for the deed and $50,000 USD. He didn't respond to the suit . . .but his wife did and I had her attention, I had the deed in my attorney's office in less than three weeks from the date he was served. I did settle with him for the deed and a cash from him to me settlement of a few thousand.

Now if I'd buy real estate on a seller financing, I'd do a purchase/seller financing and not a CFD. CFD's work if the deed is held in escrow with a title insurance company, with title insurance issued on the date of the origination of the CFD. Then all the buyer has to do is prove the payments were made to the title insurance company and the title is released and filed with the register of deeds at the county. Under those arrangements, the seller can die or move out of the country and the deed will transfer with no problems.

Vehicles in my world . . . are cash for vehicle, and title, no exceptions. Exception = no sale.

In South Dakota, obtaining money by making a promise and then not delivering on the promise is called fraud. I'd sue for the title + $50,000 cash + attorney's fees + discovery and court costs and I'd do it today.

This is really too bad and I hope I don't have to go to this length. I keep waiting and calling and waiting and calling. I am not sure how to even go about suing someone as I have never had this kind of situation before. If it weren't for a title, I would just walk away but I want to keep my trailer and hopefully fix it up.

I may have to call around and get some opinions if I can reach an attorney. I just hate to be a part of this kind of mess but the PO didn't tell me he wasn't going to produce the title. The other part of me hopes this guy is going to produce the title and I can go on with my little life and no drama. Thanks for your advice. I may have to take it....but I am hoping I don't.
Sandy

[TG Twinkie]

I would send him a registered letter return receipt, notifying him that you will be hiring an attorney. This attorney would be seeking the title plus damages along with court costs and attorney fees. Give him 10 days from the date of the letter to respond. If no response, the attorney will be placing a lien on his property.

[ND10CentCan]

Originally Posted by TG Twinkie

I would send him a registered letter return receipt, notifying him that you will be hiring an attorney. This attorney would be seeking the title plus damages along with court costs and attorney fees. Give him 10 days from the date of the letter to respond. If no response, the attorney will be placing a lien on his property.

It might just have to come to this. I will wait the time I told him I would, one week from today and then if no title, it will be Plan B.
Thanks for telling me exactly what I need to do if I don't get the title.
Sandy