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Old 07-05-2015, 10:13 AM   #603
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Hey, I'm putting my inner wheel wells in again, forgot I should be priming them also!

Anyway, I know there was butyl tape where the wheel well meets the wall, but should I also put it between the floor and the flange. Where the red line is in the picture?

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Nice to be back at work on Moonraker! At least this summer I have the Fantastic Fans on!
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Old 07-05-2015, 04:31 PM   #604
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Hi Shelly, good to see your great progress!

I have a question, which is about the wheel wells, so somewhat re: your question about the butyl tape (which, I'm sorry I don't know the answer to ). My question is about the flange on your wheel wells -- was the sub-floor supposed to be mounted on top of the flanges? If so, there must be some metal under to mount them to. I ask because I'm not certain, but it seems I remember a show on Flippin' RV's which they had theirs on & took the time to take it apart & mount under the sub-floor. I could have this backwards, not certain.

I checked our Bubble pics & they are mounted on top like yours are. We are hoping to get back onto our Bubble soon, & I want to get this right. I guess the luan for the Marmolian flooring would smooth that area out. Of course they will be inside cabinets & not seen.

I have a feeling that someone will point out that's this was a dumb question, but that's ok, I just want to get it right.

Thanks for sharing so much info.

Deb
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Old 07-17-2015, 08:01 PM   #605
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Originally Posted by Air Cruiser View Post
Hi Shelly, good to see your great progress!

I have a question, which is about the wheel wells, so somewhat re: your question about the butyl tape (which, I'm sorry I don't know the answer to ). My question is about the flange on your wheel wells -- was the sub-floor supposed to be mounted on top of the flanges? If so, there must be some metal under to mount them to. I ask because I'm not certain, but it seems I remember a show on Flippin' RV's which they had theirs on & took the time to take it apart & mount under the sub-floor. I could have this backwards, not certain.

I checked our Bubble pics & they are mounted on top like yours are. We are hoping to get back onto our Bubble soon, & I want to get this right. I guess the luan for the Marmolian flooring would smooth that area out. Of course they will be inside cabinets & not seen.

I have a feeling that someone will point out that's this was a dumb question, but that's ok, I just want to get it right.

Thanks for sharing so much info.

Deb
Hi Deb,
I did see remnants of the butyl tape under the flange so I answered my own question!


I have two layers in my wheel wells, one is metal and that is attached to the frame and the subfloor goes over that. The second layer is fiberglass ( with a metal top overlay) and that goes on last, after the walls go in. The flange of the fiberglass one gets screwed down to the wooden subfloor. Using short screws of course so you don't puncture the gray water tanks! . I would not want flooring to go over that flange as if a wheel ever blows out they are probably going to need repair or replacement. Imagine how much more difficult that would be if the flooring was installed over the screws?

It's the same logic I use for putting in the flooring last, after cabinets and such. If the flooring ever fails ( due to extreme heat, cold, excessive wear etc... any number of reasons). I want to be able to remove it and replace it without having to take out cabinets. Way more time consuming to put in but it also allows you to see the subfloor and moisture damage. Also allows the plywood to dry out if it does get wet! Win, win in my book
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Old 07-18-2015, 08:51 AM   #606
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Hi Deb,


It's the same logic I use for putting in the flooring last, after cabinets and such. If the flooring ever fails ( due to extreme heat, cold, excessive wear etc... any number of reasons). I want to be able to remove it and replace it without having to take out cabinets.
I too see little value in having flooring under cabinets. If you are laying laminate, that is quite heavy so why add what no one sees. Cabinets also anchor flooring and do not allow it to expand and float as much.
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Old 07-22-2015, 07:31 PM   #607
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Shelly,

That's a great point you have made. We had been thinking in lines of the flooring protecting the sub-floor, but I see your point.

Hmmm, now that's something else to ponder before doing more.

Thanks.

Deb
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Old 07-23-2015, 03:44 AM   #608
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As usual, I differ....
On all my projects I use single sheet Marmolium. The product is glued to the floor using a 2 part epoxy adhesive. Not only does this adhesive hold the flooring down, but it saturates the entire subfloor with the epoxy creating a water proof layer. The sheet goes from wall to wall and is completely uniform. The furniture sits flat on the floor and the line created there is perfect.
I was a cabinet maker for many years prior to this career. I can scribe on a level most cannot. Even with this skill set, I can never cut around and into corners in a manor I find expectable. There is always an awkward gap. Shoe molding can hide this ugly gap, but quickly things move and vibrate causing the shoe molding starts popping off. Shoe molding also creates a line at the floor that completely changes how your eye sees the lines in the trailer. It makes everything look weighted to the floor.
There was a good reason the flooring went under everything. Wally was no dummy and knew very well. The furniture has no finished bottoms. The flooring serves this purpose. Wally also used a glue down tile. The hope was to create a permanent layer. Unfortunately the glue technology was not advanced to that level back then.

And on a side note... laminate flooring is an incredibly horrible choice for a trailer. The temperature extremes will have it expanding and contracting constantly. It expands more than any other floor and is in my opinion, the least desirable choice. If you do use it, and think it a good idea to make a nice tight seam along cabinets, you will quickly learn about how it can bulge up and float way from where it is supposed to be.

Sorry to differ with a number of you on this. I hope you will consider what I said.
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Old 07-28-2015, 06:37 PM   #609
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Paint prep took forever.....

I was so eager to get to the Zolatone that I forgot my wheel wells should probably go in first. The plan was just to pull out the wheel wells from storage, give them a good sanding and install. Well you know how plans go..... I started to sand and they smelled awful, that same old "50 year old trailer that was used as a habitrail" kind of smell. Then looking closer, all the rivets had pulled through the fiberglass and there were holes and cracks in more than a couple of spots. " Do it once and do it right, Right?" If I ever have a tattoo that will be it!

I stripped the paint off, repaired all the weak areas with fiberglass/ filler (particularly all around the bottom flange) and West System epoxy. Then I even gave the whole thing a coat of epoxy to stiffen it up and seal in any odors. Then I re-attached the aluminum top and sanded it all to prep for paint.


I installed it using butyl tape to seal it to the wall of the trailer. Of course after I had riveted it all in place, I realized I had never removed the paper backing on the butyl tape! So one of the wheel wells I actually installed twice. GRRRRRR... Then there was the gray water tank inlet (covered in blue tape below) that was blocked by the flange. My trusty rotozip took care of that!
I also buck riveted the door. I have a awesome hand puller that I was planning on using but of course the rivets were too close to the inner edge so I had break out the compressor and the gun. I have a really nice tungsten bucking bar that I love . It's very heavy and compact. I have small hands and I really hate how so many tools are hard to use because they are too big (like the hand riveters, they KILL my hands!) And yes, I know they make woman sized tools, but pink tools (or god forbid floral , shudder) are not a big fav of mine! Anyway, this bucking bar is sized right and does an excellent job.


I also made a patch for the water filler. Back in the day Airstream just pop riveted random strips along side of it to close the gaps, Mine looks a whole lot better! No mice highway here!
I had this awful area where someone threw up a patch to cover the old refrigerator vent. The holes were very large and if I filled them with rivets it was going to look awful. I opted to patch them all with Marine-tex. Its a two part epoxy used to patch holes in aluminum boat hulls. It did a great job patching the rivet holes and was surprisingly easy to sand. Which was a good thing because their "sag free" formula was not exactly sag free.



I promise the next post will be about Zolatone!

We have managed to have some fun this summer, just back from a week on the Cape, Great fishing - mine was the smallest fish at 21 inches and had to be thrown back so I got to take the picture instead!
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Old 07-29-2015, 09:25 PM   #610
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Aaaah....you really ARE my sister by another mister....I love to fish too! Nothing makes me happier than fishing with my whole family (even better than camping!) That looks like GREAT fun! Great catch! Oh, and your progress is fabulous!
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Old 08-31-2015, 05:38 PM   #611
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Wow! I've been reading up on your progress over the past year! Very impressive. Very interested in how the new Zolatone goes. When we used the original formula the fumes kicked my butt even with the best paint shop grade respirators. It sure was a rewarding step and your prep looks great!
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Old 09-28-2015, 07:18 PM   #612
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So who wants to see my Zolatone?

Well..... You can't, not really.....I mean... it photographs like a Yeti in a blizzard! Okay you had to be in Boston for the Blizzard of 2015 to get that reference, but really it does not photograph well. That being said here you are!
Here's a closeup ... not that it shows up any better lol.
I like it! Way more than I thought I would. It's color number FLX-0032. Its a creamy yellow with caramel colored specks (they call it cracker crust!) The sample I got from Zolatone had a lot of darker brown in it, but mine didn't come out exactly like the sample. There's far less brown which is what I was hoping for. It's also way lighter than these photos suggest.

My experience with Zolatone Flex was very positive. They recommended that bare metal be primed with a good primer. I used Benjamin Moore Fresh Start which I've talked about in my last post. Based on the fact that I was able to prime Moonraker with two coats in just a little under a gallon of primer, I ordered two gallons of the Zolatone basecoat ($27 each) and three gallons of the topcoat $110 each). Which by the way, is way less than the estimated coverage. By Zolatone's coverage estimate, I would have needed more like 5 gallons of the topcoat, for example.

The basecoat gives the surface its texture and the topcoat gives it the speckled appearance. I was able to do two coats of primer using up 1 2/3rds of the two gallons of base coat. The top coat was supposed to have less coverage and it did, I ended up using 2 3/4 gallons out of the three. I cut it kind of close and I didn't let anything go to waste, taking a spatula to the paint can (really kinda wish I hadn't used my Williams Sonoma spatula, as I had to chuck it, sigh ). And when I say I didn't waste much I mean it .... See?
I also did not paint the window frames or refrigerator flue (which I still need to build). So to keep my reserved paint for the refrigerator flue, I only did one coat of the topcoat on the wheel wells. So if you are ordering based on my experience, take that into account!

They send you one specialty foam roller and one sample card. When I ordered my sample cards originally they sent me a large (8x10) sample. I highly recommend you get samples because the colors on my monitor were very different from the real colors looked like. Also spend the money and order a second specialty foam roller. By the time I got through my second top coat, the roller was matting down and I wasn't getting a consistent speckle pattern.

Other tips?

TAPE OFF EVERYTHING. This stuff SPLATTERS!!! If you roll slowly you can mitigate some of it. I am an extremely neat painter and figured I didn't need to tape off the electrical wires, that was a mistake. And don't expect to go to a fancy dinner that night. I needed a couple of days for this to wear off, my camera and fitbit are still covered in splatters.


Also, take out your window screens, paint doesn't clean very well off of them. Yep, the queen of doing it again strikes! Thankfully, I only had to re-screen one, before I wised up and removed them.

Overall though, I am really happy with the paint. Total cost was about $402 plus $68 shipping ( not including the $50 for the Benjamin Moore Primer). I think that's about half what the oil based spray-on Zolatone is, especially if you need to buy/rent a paint sprayer.

Speaking of which, I recently had a fellow Airstream visitor John (65CV) drop by. He has a true Zolatone finish (that is sprayed on). My impression was that the texture was very similar but my flecks were MUCH more subtle. Here is his Overlander having a reunion with Moonraker!
Remember my patched section where the refrigerator flue would be? It came out great! The texture really helped hide the patching job...
I also installed the lights...
Two sconces on either side in the front (if you bid against me on Ebay for these I'm really sorry.....just saying.....) Love the tiny stars!
These have the LED bulbs from m4products.com. They still honor the discount code from the VAP, (Vap5) will save you five percent. They aren't cheap at $19 a bulb but they won't drain your batteries and they are BRIGHT!
Overhead light is my favorite! Its casts little starbursts all over the ceiling...
I did got all my window frames cleaned up and spray painted. I used a hammered copper paint from rustoleum. Copper will be a recurring theme in Moonraker. I'm in love with the warmness of copper, Stay tuned for more on that front!
Now for the bad news... About a month ago I fell and injured not only my rotator cuff, but my deltoid in my right shoulder. I'd like to say it was doing something daring... like polishing and falling off my Airstream, or getting thrown from my horse, but nope, it was one of those garden variety getting up half asleep in the middle of the night and simply tripping and.... well I went over like a felled tree.

Xrays, numerous Dr. visits and mucho Physical therapy later..... I'm finally getting some use of my arm back. Thankfully, I'm improving enough that they are saying surgery isn't necessary. I still have very little strength though, can't even hang onto a screwdriver.

Which means that work on Moonraker is at a standstill. Just when I get to the fun part!

Meanwhile, I've got a Propride waiting to be installed.... NOT going to happen soon as it weighs a ton. The TPMS system I think I can handle (the little sensors are only a couple of ounces lol)

Anyway, as I couldn't work on her, we decided it was time to hit the road. We've spent the last couple of weekends at Greenfield State Park (NH), then Salisbury State Park (MA)... This past weekend we headed north to the Loon Mountain Area (NH).

Sleeping on the floor on mattresses has moved up the beds to the PRIORITY ONE list !!! Just got a load of bending birch and Baltic birch.... itching to get started!!!

Oh, and I went to the Brimfield Antique show and picked up three of these aluminum riveted beauties. They have wooden slides on the bottom and we've been using them to store stuff in the truck bed ! Love them! They even have metal flanges on top (in the corners) so I can stack them or put a piece of wood on top to use as extra seating.

And one of my favorite pictures from our trips. Finn with the Airstream behind him! Finally getting out and actually using Moonraker has felt GREAT!

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Old 09-28-2015, 07:52 PM   #613
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Shelly,

I hope you don't mind a little constructive criticism, but your pictures don't do your Zolatone finish justice. It looks WAY better than the pics! If I had known how well it would look, I wouldn't have sprayed -- it's really nasty stuff to spray.

It's great to hear that you're out camping. We found that we needed the time in the trailer to think about designs and to get more inspiration. Nothing better than time in an Overlander to get to know it. Bummer that the driver for your camping was an injury.

John
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Old 10-04-2015, 02:41 PM   #614
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Shelly, the progress looks great! So sorry to hear about your injury, my wife's a physical therapist so I know how much work they're probably making you do. Just be sure to do your "homework" and keep a positive attitude, you'll be back to normal in no time!

Any chance we're going to see pics of your bed soon?

-Marcus
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Old 10-12-2015, 05:57 PM   #615
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Shelly, the progress looks great! So sorry to hear about your injury, my wife's a physical therapist so I know how much work they're probably making you do. Just be sure to do your "homework" and keep a positive attitude, you'll be back to normal in no time!

Any chance we're going to see pics of your bed soon?

-Marcus
The beds are built and will look eerily familiar to you . Currently finishing the plywood and hopefully they will be together in the next couple of days. It will be sooooooo nice not to sleep on the floor when we camp

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Arm has its good and bad days ( vastly dependent on how many kreg screws I've driven) .....getting better tho thankfully ....
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Old 10-12-2015, 06:21 PM   #616
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I've seen your house -- that is PRIME real estate indoors! I don't even want to know how you managed that.

Looks great.
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