'69 Safari bath floor repair

[Aerowood]

Ok I,m setting in a hotel room in Tucson Az. If you are taking out 3 feet you might as well go another foot foward and take the whole panel out up to the factory splice if you can. The crossmember at the splice is narrower then the others for the splice plate. that should make replacment a little easier. The "C" is actually a "U" channel as pictured and is stock. Be sure to remove all the staples and the squiggly steel floor panel splices. If you have to splice the new floorboard to get it installed do it right down the center.

[fotochop]

ATTENTION NEWBIES: when metal gurus like Aerowood send you a heads up DO NOT IGNORE IT! ;-) muchas gracias buck-meister A., for that 'go to 4 foot' advice. I took it and yessr, thar she is, a beauty, the floor spice in question, lookin' like the day she went in back in '69:



which is gonna make splicing the new plywood so much easier. airforums to the rescue once again. Once the old subfloor came out I could really notice more "issues", like these gnarly breaks in the aft U-channel. Unfortunately the rig seems to have a bit of rear-end-sag. Not much, maybe a half-inch? but enough to break the U channel:



My game plan, unless one of you experts can suggest better (PLEEEZE?) is to lay some flat aluminum stock into the U and drill thru it when I put in the new carriage bolts. sound feasible? here's what the gap looks like. definitely more than the 3/4 inch needed for the floor:



The Very Good News (and a major reason why I'm doing this) is the frame appears to be in very solid shape (whew!) and ready for some POR'ing etc. A couple small cross pieces (nomenclature?) have rusted off:



but my welder can fix that with no problem. I want to add a few extra braces, like under the hot water heater, flat stock to not interfere with the gas pipe. Got to weld an additonal black tank support, one was totally gone and probably re-do the nuts/bolts to make the tank 'droppable'. In the Bad News Department we have a crack in the black tank at the dump flange which I'm going to try and repair or have repaired and, yes, I know these don't always work, but a new one just ain't in the budget right now. Here's a shot of the shot floor puzzle that will be used to make the template for the new floor:



once again: ANY ADVICE APPRECIATED! I'm jes a-learnin' as I go here, folks, and I know these gnarly toilet poop-threads ain't nearly as SEXY and alluring as "My New CCD Bambi-Sport With T3 Internet" type topics or "Pre-Armageddon Design Thesis " stuff but I really appreciate all you hardcore knuckle-busters chiming in with your ideas and advice. It's already helped me immensely and I look forward one day to helping others in the same way...

[Jim Clark]

Rick, if you can v grove the crack and drill the the ends I have some high quality epoxy and cloth which can be used to seal the crack.

Jim

[PizzaChop]

Rick,

If your welder has a TIG, you might as well weld up your floor channel crack before you reinforce it.

Inland Andy recommends an additional flange on either side (outboard of the main frame rail) as an additional hold down point for the floor channel to the frame. (Think of a 2"-3" piece of angle iron welded to the out side of the main frame rail with a 3/8" bolt securing passing through it, the plywood, and the floor channel. Be sure to add a large fender washer or better yet, piece of steel inside the channel to increase the holding power.) This will give you four rear hold down points on the frame instead of the factory two.

You are wise to replace the entire piece of plywood.

[Aerowood]

Originally Posted by fotochop

like these gnarly breaks in the aft U-channel. Unfortunately the rig seems to have a bit of rear-end-sag. Not much, maybe a half-inch? but enough to break the U channel:

My game plan, unless one of you experts can suggest better (PLEEEZE?) is to lay some flat aluminum stock into the U and drill thru it when I put in the new carriage bolts. sound feasible? here's what the gap looks like. definitely more than the 3/4 inch needed for the floor:

I have a couple of questions? In the one picture there appears to be a piece of aluminum under the "C" channel at the break. What is that and where is that located on the back of the trailer. The other question is, have you tried putting a piece of scrap 3/4" ply under the "C" channel where the floor is removed and then clamping to see if it will pull all back together? Jacking up the rear section of the frame may make it easier to see if it all clamps back together. If everything comes back together, then I would put in your new floorboard and press on. I would not use carriage bolts though, but regular ole 1/4" hex head stainless steel bolts with fender washers (large area washer) on both sides and then finish it off with self locking nuts. I would put a minimum of about six through the rear cross member area.

Kip

[fotochop]

re: Pizzachop (btw: your bath repair and ex+ photos inspired me to dive in, next time we're near Athens we look forward to some lunch of paparonnis pepperoni...can I borrow your backhoe? just kidding.. ;-) the Inland Andy add-on would be angle iron running LENGTHWISE (not across) along the mainframe (which are also the 'skid' plates on my '69) members, correct? in this shot, (taken from streetside just below the hot water heater area) you can see where a PO has already run aluminum as a mounting surface for the bellypan (corrosion risk?) I think you're suggesting additional angle iron ABOVE these, yes? either way, it sounds like a great idea since the aft floor really doesn't seem to have enough tie-in points:



re: Aerowood, that aluminum in the c-channel photo is a piece of flat stock that covers the fore area of the back-bumper-access (dump valve area), and the bumper cover is hinged to it (or just above it), if memory serves me... in this shot you can see it from outside the trailer aft, running across the back bumper:



I'm seriously considering beefing up the one, lightweight cross-member that the above piece is attached to, which can be seen in this next shot taken from below the bumper area. (The aft-most edge of the floor sits on top of it.) It just doesn't seem sturdy enough to carry what's being asked of it, although the 'Inland Andy' addition would certainly help:

[Aerowood]

The aluminum channel in the first pic is stock. My 71 Gt was so equipped also. I am planning on replacing it with a aluminum angle that is primed and installed wet with sealant to prevent corrosion. I agree that your rear cross member is on the flimsy side too. Mine has a full sized cross member in this location. I did a lot of rework in this area. I made a new aluminum angle that went from above the rear cross member then up and inbetween the rear skin, "C" channel, and vertical frames. The other piece of aluminum angle goes down from the rear crossmember to cover the rear crossmember and act as the fwd wall of the bumper storage area. I had to route the lower surface of the floor board to clear these two pieces. The vertical angle is .063 2024-T3 amd the lower angle is .040 2024-T3.

[Aerowood]

Here's a pic of my rear cross member

[PizzaChop]

Rick,

This is sorry artwork, but my wife is the PhotoShop expert. Hopefully the pic below gives the idea of the additional hold down point. The red is the angle, the the green represents the bolt. The placement fore/aft should be so that it can catch the floor channel of the shell.

Creating enough separation to slide in a new piece of plywood should not be difficult. Lower the tongue and stand on one of the frame rails (there may already be enough separation, the problem is the exterior skin "skirt" which hangs down.

Be sure to use a 1/4" luan template to ensure proper fit BEFORE cutting and installing the real floor. It is money and time well spent.

I'm glad my photos inspired you. When I go back and look at them now, I wonder who the heck was that guy?

P.S. - While we're not open for lunch, I'm sure I could make an exception with advance notice!

[fotochop]

YES, that looks like what I need. Bravo. Adds to my "welders to-do list" but let's get it right the first time. I want to make a similar bumper box, an obvious improvement over my single plate (guess they learned a bit from '69 to '71..)

I'm onto making the cardboard template for the new plywood but have hit a discrepency between my interior measurement and what the old floor curve radius suggests. Measuring inside the trailer I get 47"+ from existing plywood to the inside back (ext.skin) wall:



but after tracing the old plywood curve onto cardboard it suggests a much shorter distance of around 45" to the back edge. (And I don't recall the floor stopping at the INTERIOR skin...do I?..) sorry this picture did not rotate, but you can see the difference:



My plan is to just cut it long at first and trim back as necessary, but tell me, does the original floor extend all the way back to against the exterior skin?


also, has anyone had success in PATCHING bellypan metal? Mine is pretty screwed up, numerous holes and some corrosion (see below). I'm reluctant to replace (it's bigger than 4x8) but I guess I could do it w/two separate sheets if necessary

[PizzaChop]

Don't waste your time with cardboard.

Go get a piece of luan. I made many small trimmings until it finally fit the way I wanted it. Once it fit perf, I cut the plywood.

You can patch the belly pan (or replace it in sections).

[PizzaChop]

Rick,

The floor should extend all the way to the exterior skin. (The floor channel rides on the plywood.)

As I recall, it is very close to the full width of a 4' x 8' sheet of plywood.

[Aerowood]

From the pictures you have posted it looks like you are in an enclosed shop area. I'm jealous. I think the high today was 14f degrees. I need a couple of 50 degree days to continue with my sheet metal work.

[fotochop]

sorry, man, but I'm outside! I'll be complaining in August when just walking outside here can give you heatstroke, but this Lower Delta ain't so bad in the winter...at least when the sun is shining. I know how frustrating it is to have a project you can't jump on. I was hoping to have this rig done by Mardi Gras but don't think it'll happen. I DO plan on spending a lot of time at the FL beaches this summer, though!

any thoughts on retro fitting generic blackwater tanks? I'm now realizing I can't cut the toilet and vent openings if I decide to replace my (cracked) original blackwater tank. I'll need to have the new tank with new openings first. This place:

- Plastic-Mart -

seems to have excellent prices on generic tanks. I'll have to call them tomorrow and see what's up. Can't see paying 500 for a replacement and I am seriously doubtful about patching cross-linked LDPE from all my recent research...

[Aerowood]

I still need to have 2 gray water tanks custom fabricated to fit in the cavity above the axle and the cavity aft of the axle. My wife just started up her own consulting business so I can't pull the trigger on the tanks yet. I do have a lot of metal work to do yet (curb side lower re-skin and the door re-skin) and I have all the sheet aluminum in the basement just waiting to be installed and it's to cold outside for the sealant I'm using. I am really wanting to use my GT this summer instead of the tent.

[Zeppelinium]

Originally Posted by fotochop

.... I am seriously doubtful about patching cross-linked LDPE from all my recent research...

Yes, from what I know the cross-linked LDPE does not weld. Well, maybe, but not for us amateurs. But I think the Scotch Weld will work....

Zep

[fotochop]

fools rush in....

my tank was the kind of plastic that smells like a candle when you burn it. it melts like waX under a soldering iron. first I harvested some plastic from a vent pipe with my razor knife:



used my inspection mirror to 'tack' the crack along the inside of the tank with my not-too-hot soldering iron. then I simultaneously v-grooved the crack from outside while feeding my harvested 'welding rod' along the crack, careful not to push all the way thru. I was skeptical but if it DOESN'T work, hey, I'll buy a new tank. it's not the end of the world. looked good, though. this stuff melts really easy. when I remount the tank I will be careful to have NO STRESS POINTS on the flange. here's what the weld looks like:



I decided to switch from the seriously played-out Thetford to a Valterra simply because I like the design (I know it's not as heavy duty as the Thetford...I don't care) and I can get parts locally. And it's cheaper. They're everywhere. But wait: PROBLEM!! The Valterra flange is a HAIR fatter than the Thetford was and won't go in the tank flange. urgh. think...think...OK, this plastic is thermo-flexible, right? So I put a 600 watt quartz light on it like a heatlamp to warm it up reasoning that if I can get the pipe inside the opening while it's warm and soft once it cools and shrinks back to size it oughta be tighter than a gnat's hiney. hey, worth a try:



I put a light coat of lube oil on the Valterra pipe and slipped 'er in, well, actually pushed 'er in being careful not to break the tank again. here you can see the oil on the v-pipe:



it was TIGHT. quite tight. so I tightened up the hose clamp and filled the dang thing up with water. an hour later: dry as a bone. no leaks. no where. dunno if the 'dryness' will show up in this shot:



again: if it breaks, replace the tank. so far, so good...

[Lothlorian]

Thank you so much for those pictures of how you repaired your black tank. I have already ordered and paid for a new one. The tank is an orginal and I got it from airstream. My thetford dump valve is shot. I like how you replaced yours and I think that is what I am going to do. My thetford disintegrated when I tried to take it off.

I may try to repair my old tank using the techniques you incorporated and just sell it. I just do not want to tear the back end apart again after I do the repairs. I checked out your website, and really enjoyed your pictures. I grew up with the blues and country rock and roll. I have seen Emmy lou many times.

Brian

[BIGED52]

I will be sending you karma for taking the time to post all the step-by-step pics of your repairs. Thank You so much for showing how you did each phase of your repairs. We will stay tuned! Happy Trails, Ed

[fotochop]

..and thanks back 'at ya, BIGED, for the karmic deposit. yknow when you're working on one of these down-and-dirty repairs like a rear-end-re-do sometimes it seems like no one really gives a hoot and we'd all much rather check out pix of a new '75 Anniversary or CCD so it's nice to know someone out there appreciates the photos and postings...

this forum has SO educated me about renovations, it's the least I can do to give something back so I'm always encouraging folks to 'get a thread going' or do like Pizzachop Ron and put up some really nice pix of your step by step over in your picture space even if it's not in a thread..

and if anyone is making plans to come to the New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Fair this year (better than Mardi Gras, in my biased opinion as a music-lover!) I'll have a booth in the Contemporary Crafts section where you can see (and buy) 'real photographs' (printed in a darkroom, not from a computer) from my 30-year collection of shooting N.O. and LA music.. I'm going to try and do some research about camping/parking options during Jazzfest and will post whatever I find. it's really a fantastic time to come here, less boozin' and more about the culture/food/music when compared to Mardi Gras (biased opinion, once again..)