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Old 10-30-2006, 04:48 PM   #21
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1958 22' Flying Cloud
1956 30' Sovereign of the Road
1963 16' Bambi
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OK, here's the scoop

After some creative knot tying, rigging, and duct tape (duct tape fixes all! ) I got the TW jack post secure enough to travel without bouncing on the pavement. Its down at Truck and Trailer USA, they've done well with my stuff before, cheaper labor than RV places and they "know" me now. I'm sure they are muttering under their breath, "Oh man, here comes that chick with the Airstream . . .", but they smile, give me credit for what I know, and always do anything I ask. They sell Atwood's, but a 3500 lb was $459. And it will only raise 7 inches per minute, go figure. I went to Camping World and picked up the Ultrafab 3500 tongue jack, raises 20 inches per minute, has a manual crank that inserts at the top instead of the bottom, and has a 6" extra drop on the foot. Plus, my research shows it to be relatively trouble-free compared to Barker's. Overkill with 3500 lb, but with the multi level terrain in my area I really need the adjustable foot. Jim, I would have loved to get one off eBay, but none of the refurbished have the adjustable foot. So I shelled out the extra bucks. I'm tired of dragging around the concrete block, so in the long run it will be worth it. Kevin, you're right. They will have to cut off the existing jack. Truck and Trailer will wire for power to the trailer 12V and the TV 7-pin. And they will save the old parts and try to determine why it failed. It should be ready later this week, so I'll let ya'll know how it turns out. Gee, I'll miss the vintage look of the manual jack but I'm looking forward to giving my aching shoulder a rest.
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Old 11-01-2006, 06:22 AM   #22
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UltraFab 3500

Sugarfoot,

Congratulations on your purchase. I am sure you will be pleased with the Ultrafab 3500. We sell the Ultra fabs where I work on SOB trailers and they have proved very reliable.
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Old 11-01-2006, 08:05 AM   #23
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New Jack City

Sugarfoot you should be very pleased. The one thing I did do was remove the cap which covers the access hole for the auxiliary jack handle and put a bead of silicon sealer around the edge and reinsert. I was worried about a leak or the cap blowing off going down the road. I keep a 4 X 4 block in the bed of my truck to make adjustments, useful for other things also.

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Old 11-01-2006, 08:13 AM   #24
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Aux. Operator - Battery Operated Drill

[quote=ticki2]
Quote:
Originally Posted by overlander64
Greetings ticki2!



That manual crank handle gave me some peace of mind until I had to use it. At least the one included with the power jack installed on my Overlander (the same one that was used on new Airstreams at the time), it takes five or more turns on the emergency crank to equal one turn of the old manual cranked jack. I have had to use mine in emergency mode twice, and hope to never have to repeat the experience.


That is true , it does take more turns , but then it turns easier . I just mention it so others don't think they are dead in the water because of a low battery or bad jack motor .
I am now thinking Battery Operated Drill. I have to look at the fitting on my aux. handle. I always take my drill when I am on the road.

Jim
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Old 11-01-2006, 08:50 AM   #25
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Oh Jim, those are great ideas! I will certainly do that with the cap. Thanks! And the battery operated drill, that could just be the ticket.
Silverhobby, I'm glad to hear you haven't heard of issues with the Ultrafab either. That's the same thing the service tech at Camping World told me. Lots of others come back with problems, but only one Ultrafab in his experience. It was a wiring problem and was still under warranty.
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Old 11-01-2006, 01:18 PM   #26
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My trailer came with an electric jack, but the battery ceased to operate while I was towing it back to California, which meant that when I got back at about 11pm I had the trailer in the driveway, the truck attached & blocking most of the street... and no way to lift the trailer off the hitch. Eventually I was smart enough to plug the trailer into a 110V outlet and the converter was working, but for whatever reason (dubious wiring, probably the same reason the battery died) the jack still wouldn't work. In the end, while digging for a manual jack in the back of a friend's car I realized that one of the obstacles I had just removed from his trunk was one of those battery-starter kits containing a... 12V battery. (I was not at my sharpest at that moment.) Hooked that up to the jack directly and eventually got it off the truck, but right then I did wish for a manual jack. Still I think when the wiring is done correctly I'll be glad of it.
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Old 11-01-2006, 06:28 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacobwellcom
. . . . Eventually I was smart enough to plug the trailer into a 110V outlet and the converter was working, but for whatever reason (dubious wiring, probably the same reason the battery died) the jack still wouldn't work. In the end, while digging for a manual jack in the back of a friend's car I realized that one of the obstacles I had just removed from his trunk was one of those battery-starter kits containing a... 12V battery. (I was not at my sharpest at that moment.) Hooked that up to the jack directly and eventually got it off the truck, but right then I did wish for a manual jack. Still I think when the wiring is done correctly I'll be glad of it.
Jacobwellcom, that doesn't sound like a pleasant experience. I'm hoping to avoid a similar situation by having the jack wired to work with either the TV or the trailer battery. But I'm concerned about what you say regarding jack wiring actually draining the battery. Does an electric jack normally draw on the 12V even when not being deployed or is this a problem only if wired incorrectly?
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Old 11-02-2006, 02:24 PM   #28
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The jack wouldn't draw current when it's not being used. In my case something else must have caused the battery to go dead. The wiring in my trailer has some issues.
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Old 11-02-2006, 06:08 PM   #29
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so, i still am uncertain... do i need to have a battery in my trailer to run teh jack, or will it draw enough current through the charge line?

jp
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Old 11-02-2006, 06:17 PM   #30
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My understanding is that it can be powered by either the TV or the trailer battery. Problem is, I have times when leveling where I may not have the TV in close proximity. I don't want to depend solely on the 7-pin for power. I'm not certain if the TV power to the jack comes from the charge line or a separate wire, but I believe it is incorporated into the 7-pin wiring. Now, if I'm wrong, someone feel free to correct me. I want to understand this too.
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Old 11-02-2006, 06:39 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A-Merry-Can
so, i still am uncertain... do i need to have a battery in my trailer to run teh jack, or will it draw enough current through the charge line?

jp
If you are plugged into shore power the jack should work , with/without battery .
If your plugged into TV your jack should work , with/without battery.
If you are not plugged in to anything , and the trailer has no battery , nothing will work , including the jack .
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Old 11-12-2006, 08:10 PM   #32
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1958 22' Flying Cloud
1956 30' Sovereign of the Road
1963 16' Bambi
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Age, wear, and tear = failure

Finally got my TW back this Thursday. Evidentaly it failed due to age and possibly rust. Truck & Trailer didn't take the jack apart, but they felt the worm gear mechanism became so worn on the teeth over time that they lost the ability to mesh properly and stripped out. Said this is the most common cause of failure in old jacks. It was 46 years old jack, it was going to fail sooner rather than later. They didn't know of any way to prevent this, its just one of those things to be aware of if you have an original manual jack. So all of you vintage owners beware. This could happen to you.
Looking at the old jack itself I believe rust was a big contributor to wearing away the gears. Just looking under the old jack mount tells some of the story. I have also found the A-frame has qite a bit of rust just behind the coupler. T&T felt it bears watching but will hold for now.
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I'm not fond of the look of the new electric jack, just doesn't blend well on the tongue. But overall I'm pleased. Hitching time has been cut in half, it is really fast, faster than cranking. My aching shoulder is very happy.

The side bar to the jack issue is worrisome. Coming out of T&T there is a steep grade and a dip before moving onto the highway. The TW bottomed out when leaving and now I'm sans blackwater outlet plumbing. Not to mention some belly pan damage. Dump valve is still intact. Really sucks. The sewer outlet hung seriously low when I purchased it, was on my list to correct. Pictures tell all, so it will be in the RV shop this week for repairs.
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Old 11-12-2006, 08:13 PM   #33
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BTW, when the old jack was cut off the tongue some patent numbers were made visible. They must have been under the original jack mount. Anyone know if these are significant or of interest? I had not noticed these before.
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Old 11-12-2006, 10:38 PM   #34
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Sugarfoot ,it appears that you had an adapter to the old tailpiece (broken )
and it just curved to the side .mine is the same ,but has the rubber adapter
off the tailpiece straight and short with a common fitting thetford .your tailpiece is now junk ,the 2 small pipes going into it are your sinks and shower drains .Up inside that tailpiece in your photo is the slide valve for the dump
tank. a shaft runs thru the side of the trailer and you have a wheel shaped
faucet handle to open and close the brass gate valve .An example of what they originally looked like can be found at Home Depot or any plumbing shop
that sells big brass gate valves .your may have leaked which they do at this age and so the PO installed the setup that got broke off.If the Rv guys can remove the rest of the broken piece ,they may be able to build you a new setup ,appears your black tank is ok from the photo.if you go back to my tradwnd photo (new member 60 trdwnd) you can see mine and how short it is
no elbow invoved and no dump valve on the end .you can get a sawsall up
there and carefully cut outward enough to cut away the thread on tailpiece
thats left there ,you will have the old black gate valve still attached .I
actually made a new tailpiece from brass pipe and copper 1 " tubing for the drains ,mimicking the old design.I have safari tims old valve with the tailpiece that may be removable and refurbished maybe ,but I suspect that your Rv
guys can come up with somthing .remember that what you have is old non
standard stuff ,they may be able to come up with another adaptable setup
that can sit higher up in the belly pan there .Anyway ,good luck ,thanks for the photos .post the repaired version too when its done !

Scott
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Old 11-28-2006, 08:34 PM   #35
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Here's my new blackwater fittings after a confusing and lengthy repair. The RV shop couldn't find a way to wrap their minds around the original plumbing and come up with anything similar that would work. So they removed everything up to the tank and started over. I only wish I knew what it looks like above the bellypan now. Getting the graywater lines to tie into the picture was their biggest problem, so they rerouted them to some exent to exit the belly a few inches streetside of the black. I'm not totally happy with the elaborate plumbing below my bellypan, but it doesn't leak and I'll deal with it. Unfortunately, it has only about 1/2" more clearance than the old setup so I'm still at risk of losing it again. The only reassuring thing about this experience is that my frame, at least around the blacktank, is still in good shape. At least that's what the RV shop tells me.

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Old 11-29-2006, 07:41 AM   #36
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looks pretty solid to me! have you replaced your axle yet? i don't know if it's on your plans or not, but i have a new axle for my 59 (still yet to install it). i deleted the drop the original airstream axle had, so the trailer should ride a few inches higher. that might help? also, i know biased ply tires ride higher than radials. my tradewind has radials, and i actually lost a good inch of clearance when i switched to them.

jp
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Old 11-29-2006, 05:04 PM   #37
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OK . . . . solid is a good word. The term, 'junk in the trunk' comes to mind as well. And if you catch it at the right angle, it resembles a big black Anaconda poised and ready to strike.

I wasn't planning on replacing the axle, but was considering going to the local spring shop and having the leaves re-arched or replaced and maybe one added for more clearance. I have bias now, C class 6 ply rated to 1850 lbs, you know the wide whitewalls. I want to go to a D rated 8 ply since the whitewalls only allow for about 600 lbs over dry weight. I hate to lose the whitewalls, but I'm pushing the limits.

I've also heard that raising the trailer higher makes for lots of bounce on the road, but I've got to get more clearance. I'll think on the axle option.
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Old 11-29-2006, 08:45 PM   #38
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A straight non drop axle will raise up the trailer alot !! .most look funny that high up and have a higher center of gravity ,but that would get it up high .
youd need a step to the step for mom though .see if the measurements i provided can get you up enough .radials will lower you down and the ride
will not have the same stability as the bias ply will .that said ,others have
gone the radial way ,but you know Im a bias believer .there is a reason the design of these trailers is with the four inch drop ,lower center of gravity and better handling ,like anything on the road .Even torsions have the arm angle
conservative to keep the height lower as well ,unless of course owners want
a higher rating and more arm down angle .some need more clearance for
rough dirt roads ,although Im not too much in favor of 4 wheeling an airstream trailer .


Scott
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Old 11-30-2006, 07:09 AM   #39
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what i did with the axle, was order a straight axle, with a larger tube. it comes to raising the trailer an inch, i think. i haven't installed it yet. probably in teh next few weeks, after the door and interior go in. i'll keep ya posted!

i'm definitely doing the whitewall tires, though. i love em!

jp
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